doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Question about gunfit and specifically...drop.

Lloyd,
I don’t think you and I could be much more different, physically. That said, I shoot 1 1/2” and 2 1/2” drops, same as you. But, a gun at 2 3/4” DAH is still OK for me. If it goes the other way, say, 2 1/4” DAH, I’m out.

I have passed on some lovely guns that had high dimension, 2 1/8” seems to be a number I have seen on some really nice stuff. But, I know better.

Best,
Ted

I believe this is Capt "Blue Rock" Money shooting one of his Parkers - long LOP and little drop with a mount one could see at the Southern next month

Me too Ted, meaning I know better than to try to shoot a "too high stocked" gun, as well.


Many Italian built doubles are stocked too high for me at the comb and at the heel. Zoli, C. Guerini, FAIR are all examples that are normally stocked too high for me. Berettas are not. I don't shoot trap, and don't want a gun to hit higher than 60/40. Both my built to order .410 doubles (Dickinson and FAIR) are stocked a little too high for me, even though I requested 2 5/8" DAH. They will both get bent eventually ........ hopefully they will bend.

Isn't that a leather handguard under Capt. Money's forehand?

Yep. One variant and very commonly used by Inanimate Target shooters



Ewing and Beattie of Canada with Lefevers; Gold & Silver at the 1908 London Olympic Games



Others wore a glove on the leading hand



And the Rowley pad was specifically marketed to raise the DAC



A special determination was made prior to the 1898 GAH at Live Birds, when gun weight was still limited to 8#
Sporting Life, John L. Lequin. secretary of the Interstate Association, writes us under date of Feb. 25, 1898 as follows:
“We have received inquiries from most all directions recently from a number of shooters who are probably desirous of entering the Grand American Handicap next month, concerning the weight of guns, and whether the handhold and recoil pad will be counted as a part of the gun when weighed. The subject has been placed before the Tournament Committee of the association, which committee has decided that the guns will be weighed naked.”

That “naked” would be minus Hand Guard, Rowley Pad, or recoil ‘boot’.

This is the best demonstration of turn-of-the-century gun mount; live action (the first minute) from the 1912 Stockholm Olympics
Even some of the English shooters "crawled the stock" rather than shooting "heads up"

Ted:

When I was getting into more-serious shotgunning (back in my late 30s), I was measured at a high-end gunshop in East Central Pennsylvania (their name escapes me at the moment, but they owned the Thomas Bland name then) by an American fellow that seemed to know what he was doing. He came up with that 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 number. I then watched an Englishman (Chris Batha) measure a friend of mine here in Colorado a few years later and he essentially performed the same functions, so I figured that those numbers should be pretty good. Both folks used English try-guns (the one I used had a very-heavy trigger!). Come forward about 30-years and I'm guessing that both of those "fitters" had it about right, but I'm guessing they both subscribed to the same school of thought, which is English and then based on driven game. I suspect that walk-up hunting provides a very different set of challenges, and with that in mind, different dimensions might be considered. It sounds from what I'm reading here that more drop is OK until you get to about 3 1/2 inches at the heel? Cast and pitch are a whole different can of worms.

Edit: I was fitted at Woodcock Hill (had to look that one up).

Lloyd,
That would have been Glenn Baker . Both he and Chris Batha were taught shooting instruction and gunfitting at the BASC Instructors course of which I was one of the tutors.

If you've learned to shoot classic American sxs, especially if your gun dates back before WWI, you've likely adjusted to a stock that is both shorter and has more drop than you find on classic British sxs. I once guided a hunter that showed up with a new Spanish gun, dimensions based on a professional fitting. He shot that gun on Iowa pheasants the first day and did not do well at all.

The next day, he switched to a Parker, which was the gun he'd been shooting prior to having the fitting and buying the bespoke Spanish gun. He shot very well. I tried mounting both guns. The Spanish gun was both longer and had less drop than the Parker. I told him that he had obviously adjusted to a gun that was "wrong" for him based on the fitting. And that he might very well adjust to the gun that was "right". But the difference between the two was significant enough that I doubted he'd ever shoot both of them equally well.

But your ideal dimensions can change based on how your body changes as you age. I'm thinking that's happened to me, because the gun I've been shooting best at skeet lately has an LOP of 14" and almost 3" of drop. Previously, 3" of drop usually left me looking at the top lever with even the front sight invisible. I'm sure my arms aren't any shorter (although I've probably lost an inch or so of height and definitely put on some weight.) But contemplating my next purchase, I'm thinking about guns with shorter LOP and more drop.

Lloyd, I would hazard a guess and say that the main reason American shotguns have less drop is because the manufacturers can save a tremendous amt. of money on straighter stocks. Consider how much wider a blank has to be to accommodate a stock drop of 2.75-3" heel drop as opposed to 2.25-2.5". Multiply that times a million guns and you've got a significant savings on raw wood. The so-called gunwriters push all of that stuff about the excessive drop of the old guns, but somehow hunters managed to kill off most of the game in North America with them. I'm about 6'4" with long neck, and I settled on 1 3/4" comb and 3" heel drop early on when I couldn't hit a bull in the ass with my old 870 Remington and stumbled onto an old A. H. Fox that fit me like a glove.I've never looked back. Just one observer's opinion. Sandlapper