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I FOUND THIS JOHANN PETERLONGO MAUSER SAFARI RIFLE IN 11.2x72 CALIBER

I had been searching for quite some time for a Big Bore Safari rifle that was built in my birth Country of Austria,

Well, I just added this one to my collection. It looks unfired in 99% original condition. It was brought to the U.S. from Austria by the family's grandfather - and it was likely never fired because there was no ammo available in this country.

Please feel free to comment. I'm still smiling ear to ear. smile

[Linked Image from buckstix.com]

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/pla-000.jpg < --- see pictures here

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I bet you are. Congratulations its pretty amazing!

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1st pass was in late 1909 and the diameter was 11.3mm. Then a little later the final pass under Nitro seal was also in late 1909. Now there weren't any surplus Mauser actions so this was a very expensive proposition and had to be acquired directly from Mauser or Mauser outlet. I do not see any German mechanic marks, just Ferlach marks. As far as the initials >>AR<<, the only Ferlach R mechanic I can conjure up is Rosenzopf but he was Val. Rosenzopf? Maybe he had a Brother???

As far as AR German mechanics, August Raßmann of Z-M is one of a few and

Albert Röll of Suhl is another possibility but I have no idea if either worked for Schüler?

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Interesting Böhler trademark too....


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Hello ellenbr,
Thanks for the reply.

The Bohler trademark appears twice -- its on both the left and right flats next to the rib.

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Does the number on the bolt handle appear anyplace else?

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Originally Posted by HalfaDouble
Does the number on the bolt handle appear anyplace else?
Hello HalfaDouble,
Thanks for the reply.

The numbers on this rifle were explained by a knowledgeable member of a different Forum. ....

Originally Posted by buckstix
".....Its hard to see in the picture .. the bolt handle number is numbered "6328" which does not match the rifle action number of "26311". However, there is a small number "10" on the other side of the bolt handle. You can see in the pictures the same number "10" on the bottom of the action and on the bottom of the barrel. There is also a number "10" on the wedge. The trigger-guard assembly is numbered "311" which matches the last 3 numbers of the action number. ....."

Originally Posted by a member of a different Forum
" ...... the number "10“ is an assembly number by the shop that put the rifle together. Such assembly numbers served the purpose of keeping the fitted parts sorted during further steps of hardening, polishing, bluing and so on. Apparently the gunsmiths did not care much about keeping purchased Mauser parts sorted by Mauser serial numbers. It’s not unusual to find parts of several Mauser actions combined in one pre-WWI rifle. Here the bolt from action number "26328" was used to complete action number "26311". Another such mix-up may be seen in an old thread about a 9.3x62 rifle by Foerster, Berlin. On that rifle receiver and bottom metal of two 1908 commercial Mauser actions were combined with an even older Mauser bolt. ...."
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Too, I'll reiterate for emphasis to demonstrate just how far out on the forefront this platform & ammo is. Mauser actions were scarce as hen's teeth prior to the 1st Great Disagreement in Europe, without paying an arm & a leg. I am not positive, but the 11,72 Schüler arrived on the scene say circa 1907 and it sometimes is referred to as the 444 Schüler whilst the 404 Jeffery appeared slightly after say circa 1909. Now even rarer is the 11,2X72R surfaces circa 1909 and guess where it appears in a period Katalogue: Peterlongo Katalgo 1909. It had of course a very short product life, but somehow Peterlongo was @ the pinnacle of the German Big Bore technology. Also, Peterlongo went one step further and acquired a Mauser Gesteck and had it sent to Ferlach to roll out a bore in 11,2X72 Schüler just as the ammo is being manufactured. You know, a tid-bit of info might be gleaned from the Ferlach Proof facility with the preliminary data-string & the final pass nummer.

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Likewise, info suggests that Krieghoff was involved in the Schüler German Big Bores and Krieghoff could well be the sourced for the Krieghoff - Schüler Mauser rifles. So there is some Peterlongo - Kreighoff - Schüler connection.

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Under the August Schuler umbrella August Schüler Gewehrfabrik, Mechanische Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik, the concern attempts to infer that they make their own ammo??? So if any portion of this is true, not only did Schüler develope & design their own ammo, but they just may have manufactured some?? Sources give that even Roth didn't even include the 11,2X72R until the 1910 katalog.





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Thank you for the explanation. Now my question is, was that a special length receiver or did they only extend the magazine well to the rear and expand the clip loading slot to clear that long cartridge? I see nothing like the little notch taken out of the top of the receiver ring in going from an 8x57 to a 30-06. A magnificent rifle, by the way.

Last edited by HalfaDouble; 03/19/23 02:01 PM.
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re: Ferlach gunmaker AR

A peep into the new Ferlach book shows these possible suspects:
RABIČ / RABITSCH Andr., mentioned 1878
ROSENZOPF Alexander, born 1867, mentioned 1888, c. 1900
RUTAR / RUTTER Albert, advertisement 1919.

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buckstix,

A very cool rifle indeed!

Cheers,
Jani

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Originally Posted by HalfaDouble
... was that a special length receiver or did they only extend the magazine well to the rear and expand the clip loading slot to clear that long cartridge? I see nothing like the little notch taken out of the top of the receiver ring in going from an 8x57 to a 30-06. A magnificent rifle, by the way.
Hello HalfaDouble,Thanks for the reply.

The actions were all "standard" 98 Mauser actions of standard length with very little alteration. Most of the mag boxes also remained unaltered. The idea was to use cheap Military actions with minor alterations. This limited the loaded cartridge OL to 3.25". However, this required a very deep seating of the 400g bullet of the 11.2x72 cartridge. This created a problem back in the day when trying to achieve maximum velocity. With modern powders of today, that is no longer an issue and velocities of 2400 fps are possible.

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Thanks again. Now, let us see how it shoots;-)

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Hello HalfaDouble,

When I first obtained this rifle I searched Google and found all these references about the actions.

"..... The only 11.2 × 72 Schuler rifles in existence now are the August Schuler Model 34 rifles made before World War II . Due to the rifles being built on a cheap military issued standard Mauser 98 action , all the factory Ammunition was manufactured so that the 11.2 × 72 Schuler bullets were seated really abnormally deep into their cartridges , so that the Cartridges could be made to fit into the standard M98 magazines. This of course caused case capacity issues due to not enough powder being put into the cases.

It's seems to me that the case capacity issues caused by the deeply seated bullets in the factory 11.2mm ammo is what caused it to die out. ... but as l mentioned earlier , this was a necessity in order to make the cartridges fit the standard length cheap issued Mauser 98 actions on which these Model 34 Schulers were built.

Other calibers on the 98 standard length action were the .500 Jeffery, .458 in Mag, .425 Westley Richards the 11.2x72 Schuler

The overall loaded length of the 11.2x72 cartridge was such that it would fit in a standard 98 action without modification. It was later adopted by numerous European rifle manufacturers and was utilized in the German African protectorates as a big game cartridge. ....."

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Originally Posted by montenegrin
re: Ferlach gunmaker AR

A peep into the new Ferlach book shows these possible suspects:
RABIČ / RABITSCH Andr., mentioned 1878
ROSENZOPF Alexander, born 1867, mentioned 1888, c. 1900
RUTAR / RUTTER Albert, advertisement 1919.

Oh Jani..... A must have then??? My vote for the >>AR<< mechanic is Albert Rutar/Rutter.


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Jani:

Any meta-data associated with either of the 3 suspects like >>Gewehrlauffabrik, Zieherei und Bohrerei<<¿¿

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Thanks for the reply.

This goes well with my other Original 11.2x72 Schuler.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=626895#Post626895

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