doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gunshow shopping kit

I'd love to have a way of measuring wall thickness, but that isn't very realistic for a guy that buys only an occasional shotgun. It would be nice if someone rented the tools at the show.

I carry a cheap choke gauge, chamber gauge a small measuring tape as well as 12 and 20 bore snap caps whenever I'm shopping.
You would be surprised how many people will tell you a gun has X barrels when are actually shorter. Also can measure LOP.

Brent check with Mark @ MBABLLC. I usually see him when I'm at the show. He may have a wall thickness gauge he brings. He sets up on top.

Thanks. I'll look for him and see if I can find him.

I think I'll make a chamber gauged. I thought there might be go no-go gauges, but a piece of brass will be easy enough to use as a chamber gauge.

Under the British Rules of Proof are there specific MWT per gauge or is it only a range of bore sizes per gauge that are deemed proof appropriate? When the gun is furnished in the white for testing, and chamber size and bore size are determined and it passes the proof shot, is there anything else to be done? Was there a requirement that finished guns(barrels blued or blackened) required further proof testing? There was talk at one time that on the 2" 12 barrels that occasionally the barrels after passing proof were further struck by the gunmaker to save weight, if that was the case, then the barrel had been altered which escaped further testing despite an illegal end around the law. However if the barrel hadn't been altered after proof load fired and say the MWT was below what we now feel is safe, but the gun survived proof load, the Brits would deem since it survived proof it was safe to shoot service loads. British guns would still be considered in proof if the bore size remained within a certain range, was free of pits, and chambers hadn't been altered. This is the alleged reason that some barrel makers made barrels on the tighter range of gauge so that honing could be done as long as removed metal didn't exceed the largest diameter of the gauge. Correct me if I am in error. Gil

You can find snapcaps and other possibly useful items at https//fakebullets.com.

There is no MWT rules per say. Guns with MWT of .015-.020" pass proof. Proof is lost when internal barrel bores are altered. Like making the chambers longer, adding screw in choke tubes, honing the barrels so much that they become enlarged by .010". Striking the barrels is external to the bore and should not take them out of proof. I think it is a odd distinction but it does make some sense. Proof just declares the barrels can withstand a load and are still on face with no damage afterwards. They did not blow up, bulge or suffer damage to the action or locking.

Dents get removed, which cause the barrels to need re-striking and refinishing. If you watch closely, many guns end up at auction after having a dent removed but not yet re-blacked. The owner finds out how thin they will be and decides to dump them. They are still in proof and hence still legal to sell. But they now have thin barrels and are more of a dent risk than before. Thin barrels, in good shape will give good service and be safe to shoot, with proper pressure loads. Hence my never ending issues of what is safe and how to make safe shells. Worse, with the spot shortages of powder it seems like when ever I find a safe, proper load that powder suddenly becomes unavailable for the next two years.

I have several guns with thin barrels and I pay much more attention to where the dent is than just how thin they are. A thin area 20+" from the breach is one thing and one at 10" is a very different thing. Pressure is great, the closer to the breech, and my fingers never venture 20" out but do 10" out. So it is how thin and location, location, location. I bought a very nice hammer gun several years ago which had thin areas that were in the choke areas, 28" out, on 30" barrels. One barrel was .012" after some previous owner had the choke removed. Why you needed to alter the chokes on a gun which came with cylinder I can not figure. Perhaps he was removing pitting. Anyways the barrels measured .024+" in every other spot but did have a very thin muzzle. I sold the gun and explained the risk was much great for denting a muzzle with such in muzzle areas.

Was the thin spot an attempt at jug choking?

Jon, thanks for your considered response. Gil

"with the advent of the internet and firearms specific web sites, i gave up doing shows...just about the time i began to loose patience with trying to do bidness face to face with the public..."

anyone who begins the process of a business transaction, with a negative attitude, is a deal killer...and is not worth ones time...