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#625426 01/27/23 01:32 PM
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Lloyd3 Offline OP
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In reading Ted's recent thread, I'm really inspired by his progress and...I'm reminded of my own issues with my own "shooting" eye. Much like Ted, I had a PVD episode (posterior vitreous detachment) early last spring (described quite-aptly as a lightening storm in the far-corner of one's eye), but unlike his episode...mine didn't produce the "dark curtain" effect of a torn optic-nerve connection. I'm finding it a fairly-common "old guy" complaint when discussing it amongst peers and I'm also finding the side effects are also nearly as common. The detachment caused debris and some minor-bleeding to become suspended in the vitreous humor of the eye. The net effect of all that is an inconsistent "clouding" of the focus in that eye. Sometimes it's almost normal, but at other times its damned-cloudy. I really noticed it last fall when hunting grouse because I just couldn't focus on the target sometimes at the "critical" moment. Now, I suspect that will only get worse with time, but so-far I seem to be holding my own (I've gone through almost none of what Ted's had to deal with, so I really have nothing to complain about). For more-normal activities it really is nothing; driving, conversation, even watching the idiot box isn't much affected. It's when I'm shooting is where it's most noticeable. I had laser surgery in the Spring of 2000 (to correct severe myopia and bad astigmatism) and it produced a singular improvement for me (well....showering with my wife was more fun after that too) as it made my left eye the dominant eye for the 1st time in my life. My upland shooting improved dramatically because my eye and my gun now lined up for the shot (like Ted, I'm a Southpaw).

So...for what(?) some 21 years I've had a ball chasing birds and casting flies with abandon. When I really focused on a "target" I could see it with alacrity and then respond appropriately. Now...not so much. It does take some of the fun out of things, I'll admit that, but certainly not-enough to cause me to quit. I have heard of different options for resolving this issue (like having the vitreous humor withdrawn from the eye and allowing it to be naturally replaced with new fluid by the body) but... I'm just not there yet. Does anybody here know of other options?

Last edited by Lloyd3; 01/29/23 04:21 PM.
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Yeah, I shoot through my good eye using a crossover gun. When not using a crossover gun, I suffer through bad scores. No problem.

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Lloyd
I’ve had the procedure known as a Vitrectomy in both my eyes because of annoying floaters. Wow, what a difference it made. Floaters are completely gone. Absolutely no pain considering I had three needles inserted into each.
I’d recommend the procedure to anyone bothered by floaters. Find a reputable eye surgeon. I had this done in Albuquerque.


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Lloyd,
The day I had the surgery, there were two doctors who performed the reattachment procedure, and a third consulting doctor, a guy who did a lot more communicating with me. The two surgeons had a bunch on their plate that day, and my communication with them was terse, and brief. Neither were shooters, and I asked point blank if they were, because I was in hot water and I knew it.

Third Doc took a bunch of time with me, pre surgery, and wanted to know all about my life. I fall into a subset of humans that are highly susceptible to retina detachment, male, white, Northern European background, astigmatism my whole life, older than 50. He asked me if I wanted the humor removed and filtered, and replaced, to deal with floaters, which, honestly, had never been a problem prior to that. I needed the humor in the eye, so a nitrogen bubble could be put into the humor, and the bubble would press against the repaired retina, and hold it in position until it healed. I spent 72 hours looking down, and gently altering the position to allow the bubble to “iron” the retina into the position it would heal into. I took it very seriously. He seemed relieved when I said that didn’t seem to be necessary. I came to discover that this Doc had been a duck hunter, had a middle aged Labrador at home, but, had the experience of waking up one day to discover his master, shooting eye was quite suddenly not his master eye anymore. He told me he was unable to resolve that issue, and didn’t shoot or hunt anymore. I tried to get him to understand that I didn’t consider that part of my life optional. He told me he knew of successful transitions in guys who wanted it bad enough. I had several scheduled appointments with the two surgeons after the reattachment, due to them being interested in my particular situation-I had no regular prescriptions to any type of drugs, regular blood pressure, normal BMI, no diabetes, didn’t smoke, and no other conditions that would or could impair the healing process. They didn’t get that type of patient through the door very often, and spent a lot of time actually studying the repair to the eye. More than typical. According to them, the repair was phenomenal. I wish the vision in the eye could be called the same, but, it is vision, and nothing was guaranteed when I went into the theater that day. They made sure I understood that, also.

The symptoms you describe are identical to mine, post surgery. The vision in the affected eye is not what it was, corrected to about 20/30. I do not consider that good enough to shoot with. The right eye is corrected to 20/20. When I have my head in the game, that is more than adequate, the trouble is undoing the previous 50 years of muscle memory. I have literally discovered myself on a hunt with the dog, carrying the gun in my left hand, not even consciously aware I had moved the gun from my right hand.

I’ve shot limits of birds in the past. I really don’t have the need, or desire to do that anymore, and I am slowly losing the tools it takes to do that. I complain about it, but, truth is, if I can get out with the dog and the boy, that is huge. A bird is truly a cherished bonus now, and I didn’t even fire a shot at one this year, but, I didn’t miss any, either, I guess.

At this point, there is always next year. Others, around me, are losing even that, a point driven home by my brother’s awful situation, and a good buddy who hung up his guns due to his advancing Multiple Sclerosis.

There, but for the grace of God....

Best,
Ted

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For what its worth, here is my eye story. Strongly left-handed (writing, throwing, eating, etc.), and when I started shooting .22's in 1947, I threw the rifle sights over to my dominant right eye. I quickly found this did not work with shotguns, so became a right-handed shooter. This worked well and I became a decent shot. Our team won the MN National Guard Smallbore Championship in 1954, I won the Quantico skeet tournament in 1956, qualified Expert with the Garand in the Marine Corps, and won the ND Muzzleloader Championship in 1968. I have always been an avid duck and grouse hunter, and routinely shot a deer each year for the table. I didn't need glasses for reading till I was about 60.
Then about 12 years ago, while taking a shot at a deer, I noticed a cloud of transparent bubbles when looking through the scope. My buddy quickly sent me to the eye doctor, and he quickly sent me to the retina specialists in Fargo. By that time, large black floaters were appearing, and the black cloud of retinal detachment was apparent. The reattachment operation was not a success. Not only did the surgeon accidently drain the lens, but he left me with a fold in the retina. After a new lens and lasix to get rid of remaining dead cells, my sight was so blurry I tried going back to shooting left-handed with an eye patch on my right eye. For some reason I cannot blink that eye. My shooting suffered for several reasons including inability to spot birds, lack of binocular vision, combs on wrong side, etc. But I still was able to bag a few ducks while in my boat and a few grouse along the trails near our cabin in Manitoba.
Then about 8 years ago while hunting at the cabin, the left retina detached. I stayed an extra day, drove 400 miles back with about a third of the retina blocking vision, and went to my eye doctor who quickly sent me to Minneapolis and the Retina Institute. Again, the reattachment failed, as a rough spot allowed air to get under the retina, detaching it. The surgeon said that happens about 10% of the time. I guess you could call the second attachment a success, as the retina held. I got a new lens for the eye also. Unfortunately, the second attachment operation left an opaque layer behind the retina. So a third operation called retinal scalping was required, but that failed and the opaque layer remained.
So that about ended my hunting days. I will be 86 this year, and hopefully by fall will still see the 1-minute dot on my scope well enough with my one blurry eye to shoot a deer at less than a hundred yards. But wingshooting (as well as reading and driving) is next to impossible. If the sun is out, I am basically blind. I shot a Tundra Swan in 2019 for my final bird, but against the cloudy sky it would have helped a lot if it was black!
So my advice is to get to an eye doctor as soon as you see either dark or transparent floaters, and keep on enjoying the outdoors as long as you can.

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I went to my optometrist, who diagnosed the issue, the day it happened. He had already made the appointment with the vitreous Doctors, and I drove myself later that day. The Doctor who saw me there, scheduled the surgery for the following morning. He noted retina re-attachment surgery was not emergency surgery, but, it was really close. You need to get in before the blood supply to the retina and/or optic nerve has been interrupted for too long. There is no way to tell if either has happened in any given injury.

From what I have learned from others who have been down this path, is, my outcome was better than average. I have vision in the injured eye, which, as Hal has pointed out, doesn’t always happen.


Best,
Ted

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When I get an hour or so. I will read Ted's and Hal's posts. In the meantime, I will be shooting my crossover guns.

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It is not uncommon to develop a cataract after retinal surgery. I've had detached retinas in both eyes, first in my right eye in 2000 and 2nd (and 3rd) in my left eye in 2019 and 2020. I have none of the risk factors besides age, which typically are myopia and diabetes. For the 2000 event, my eventual cataract was pronounced and I delayed the lens replacement surgery for years becuase my left eye was 20-20 and I was squeamish about it. My doctor did not mention this was a possibility but the calculus is easy: you can replace your lens, but you can't replace your retina.

I was driving back from hunting and bored I closed my good eye and discovered I probably could not drive with my bad eye if I got poked with a stick or something in the good eye so had the surgery, and wish I had done it sooner. If there is nothing else going on with your eye, you get 20-20 vision back (I did) and you choose either near or far vision for your new lens. There are multifocal lenses out there but I would never get one. Unfortunately in my left eye, I developed a retinal vein occlusion (a stroke in your eye). Your body says, blocked vessel? No problem I'll make more, but they leak and distort and swell the macula. I had no real symptoms early on, an optomotrist saw some microbleeders when he imaged my retina. Treatment is the same as if you had AMD (age related macular degeneration) but it's because the symptoms are similar so you get injections in the eye periodically that inhibit blood vessel growth. At about $8K a shot. I've switched to a time release form of a corticosteroid. It's cheaper, only $6K a shot but is working better than the other drugs. Insurance covers it. I see an excellant retinal specialist at the Casey Eye Institute in Portland, OR, and I'm happy to drive the 200 miles each way to get there for the level of expertise there.

So, make sure you don't have a cataract forming and if you do, have the lens replaced. There is no up side to putting it off. After the second detachment in my left eye, I had it done right away to nip it in the bud.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by eightbore
Yeah, I shoot through my good eye using a crossover gun. When not using a crossover gun, I suffer through bad scores. No problem.
Do you have a picture of yours 8Bore? I have never actually handled one. I would love to see how much yours is offset.


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I had macular pucker surgery on my R eye (shooting eye, but I'm L eye dominant). Successful. Prior to that, it was not unusual for me to lose sight of maybe 3 or 4 targets during a round of skeet. (The club where I shoot has a poor shooting background. Lots of trees. We need a controlled burn!) Depending on weather conditions, I still have trouble picking up some birds when shooting at that club, but it's much better than it used to be.

The other day, I shot skeet at another club with a much better background. Hadn't shot there in several months. What a difference being able to see targets clearly makes!

I can still have problems when hunting if a bird that's flying against a clear sky background flies in front of trees. It can be like . . . well, for Star Trek fans . . . they just turned on their cloaking device.

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