doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Straight Grip Lefever Shotguns

On the top picture with the straight stock and short tang, does the termination of the checkering at the end of the trigger guard tang look proper ? Could the checkering at that point be redone to meet the original pistol grip checkering?

post deleted due to duplicate post

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In retrospect, I'd have to concede that my estimate of less than 1 percent of production for straight grip Lefevers is probably incorrect. 1 percent would be only roughly 600 guns total. But based upon my observations from many years of looking at Lefever listings on various Auction and Dealer websites, I'd be quite confident in saying that no more than 5 percent were built as straight grip guns.

In addition to that, I'd add the fact that there absolutely were variations in checkering patterns, flutes at the nose of the comb,, etc. I seriously fail to see how altering or totally removing a pistol grip or semi-pistol grip could conceivably change the height or dimensions of the comb nose. I did notice it seemed unusually high in the auction photos, but that does not confirm that the stock is non-original. The long tang H grade I own that has very little drop is definitely original, but also quite unconventional in stock dimensions. It is also very nicely figured wood compared to the average H grade. My guess is that the original owner ordered it with very high DAH and DAC dimensions, and quite possibly requested nicer wood too. Lefever accomodated special orders and requests.

Speaking of off the wall non-standard Lefever guns... The I grade was supposed to be made in 12 gauge only. But I know of four in 16 gauge. I own two of them, and one of mine also has automatic ejectors. And the H grade was supposed to be built in 20, 16, and 12 gauge only. But I have one that is a 10 gauge. I have never heard of or seen another 10 gauge H grade. So when Ky jon says he has an original short tang straight grip Lefever, I can easily believe him. Lefever didn't build cookie-cutter guns. There are lots of unusual variations that many people incorrectly attribute to the relatively few that were assembled by Ithaca Gun Co. after the sale.

Keith I think you asked for the opinion? 100% without wavering that is not an original piece.
I think supplementary ideas :
If it was right we wouldn’t have raised the question.
I think the paltry sum it brought hammers that point home.

In any case just to clarify. Re: the comb. I am certainly not suggesting it was raised. I am not even saying it is high. I am saying the loss of wood below changes the perception/ general
Lines and appearance.

Certainly it could be recheckered- and surely was if (WHEN) converted. Show me any original straight grip checkering on any maker that curves out on the bottom like that.

Yes Marks_21, I did ask for an opinion, and appreciate yours as much as the others. You are obviously 100% convinced that the one recently sold on Gunbroker is just another that has been altered from pistol or semi-pistol grip configuration, and do not believe that any other short tang gun you've seen is original either. Thanks for your opinion. At this point, the Jury is still considering evidence, and most of the witnesses have a differing opinion. BTW, I would say that the nose of the comb on that H Grade actually is higher than average, and that mere perception, caused by the possible removal of a pistol grip, has nothing to do with it.

Others, including myself, SKB, and KyJon have seen and/or owned Lefever guns with the short guard tang that appear original. GSPWillie has never seen one with the short tang. I know that KyJon has owned a number of Lefever guns, and having read every word he ever posted here about his Lefever guns, I know he is pretty knowledegable about them. He has also done enough restocking jobs to be able to recognize what is original wood, and what isn't. I also agree with his observation that the long tang variety is probably more common than short tang guns that at least appear to be original. I myself am not 100% sure about the one that recently sold on Gunbroker. It was a handy picture that I could quickly grab and post. I said I was curious, but I wasn't curious enough to bid over $500.00 on an H grade with other condition issues, just to get a closer look. Given the recoil pad, short LOP, and overall condition, I do not think the hammer price was "paltry", especially after adding in shipping, insurance, FFL transfer, etc. I've seen better Lefever guns that are more scarce sell for less, so the auction price of one gun proves very little. That 16 gauge automatic ejector I Grade I have was listed as a "Field Grade 12 Gauge Lefever" on a GunBroker Auction. It is in good condition, and may be more rare than a 1000 Dollar Grade, assuming it is indeed one of a kind. Do you know of any others? The auction pictures clearly showed the water table with the I Grade stamp, the presence of auto-ejectors, and the XX indicating it was a more desirable and more valuable small bore gun. Yet I paid about what the average DS non-ejector 12 Gauge in similar condition was selling for at that time. It sold cheap because none of the many people who look at GunBroker listings saw what I saw. I was very relieved as the auction ended, that no one else noticed that this was a very unusual and scarce I Grade.

Bob Noble apparently feels that long tang guns were built when Dan Lefever was in charge, and that the short tang variation is something that may have been done after the Durston's took over. I think he may be on to something there. He has probably studied and looked at as many Lefever guns as anyone alive, in his decades long quest to collect serial numbers and attempt to decipher some of the mysteries and questions we have due to the lack of any factory records. So I do give more weight to his opinions than many others who simply repeat everything that has been said and written about these guns.

And I absolutely believe that a lot of what has been written and repeated about Lefever guns is totally wrong, especially the nonsense that absolutely anything out of the ordinary must be attributed to Ithaca Gun Co. assembly. A lack of solid evidence or factory records can do that. And the same thing can happen when someone forcefully states an opinion as Gospel, and it gets repeated by others for years and years. Asking a question and getting as many replies as possible was my only motivation for starting this thread. My question was not simply about the originality of this one H Grade gun. My hope is that more Lefever owners would chime in with their observations in an attempt to shed light on another question about Lefever guns. So I am still hoping for more replies, and I might bring this Thread back to the top once in a while to continue trying to solve another mystery, to either confirm the status quo, or to debunk something that may be incorrect.

Any serious Lefever collector who has been paying attention would know that there are a number of factory original guns that show some deviation, or vary from "standard" factory checkering patterns for a given grade. Here's a pic of the lower guard tang area and checkering on an original straight grip H Grade Lefever that I picked up awhile back for parts. Anyone can see that the checkering pattern used on this H Grade is clearly much different than the photo of the same area in the picture of the long tang H Grade that I posted here in my first post.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but this photo says it in only two words... You're wrong.



I'm hoping that this post shows up soon, instead of appearing 3 to 5 days after I submitted it. I submitted a post in Darryl's Hun's at below zero Thread nearly a week ago, and it still hasn't appeared.

One thing I think we forget is that LeFever gun may be all over the place because Uncle Dan wanted them that way or had no choice. He seemed to be constantly tweaking them. Plus what was the turnover in employees? Did the same stocker or checker do every stock, the same person do every grade from H to what ever you could afford? And the standard seemed to change slightly every time a new grade was introduced. In part these were nearly handmade, semi-custom finished (made) gun for the most parts with quality control more about function, than finish and features like seen on higher grade guns do appear on lower grade guns. What if the checker decided to try a new pattern that was used on a higher grade gun on a lower grade gun? Would we know why this was done. Or was the labor turnover so great, that explains a lot of what we see. I was always told that LeFever was short on capitol and that implied he was short on materials which was to explain seeing Damascus barrels on a gun which should only have twist or steel barrels. Maybe these odd guns are parts clean out guns, maybe being frugal and using up every last barrel blank explains the twist/Damascus combos or dolls head barrels on a DS. LeFever are not a mess but they tend to be a lot of different features in guns of the same grade.

By the way my G grade does not have a stamp on the stock. Not conclusive I know, as I have others with and without a stamping on the stock. It would just help it, if it was stamped. So it might be restocked, but it has all the lines of a factory stock but no proof that it is original. I just see many pistol to straight grip stock conversions, which never get the lines right. And LeFever had a straight grip style that is distinctive to me. Perhaps the "stocker" knew hat he was doing and made it correctly. Personally I hate restocking LeFevers and would not bother if I could avoid them. That top tang always gave me a bit of a fight to get it just right. Other might enjoy them. They can have my share. I have been putting off a restock job on one of my guns for 15 years so far. Only 15 more to go.