doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Emil Martin SxS 16 Gauge

Hey folks, new here. I just picked up this shotgun for a price I couldn't pass up, was hoping someone might be able to tell me something about it.[img]https://ibb.co/Fs42cwx[/img][img]https://ibb.co/w0Bzr3G[/img][img]https://ibb.co/SPZhkC0[/img][img]https://ibb.co/BcBGtSC[/img][img]https://ibb.co/Y7WQJkX[/img][img]https://ibb.co/rscWqc0[/img][img]https://ibb.co/R0dpyWp[/img]

Beautiful gun, super Nice engraving with a royal monogram. Hopefully someone will recognize monogram for you here. Don’t think I would have walked away from that one at any reasonable price.

A very nice gun indeed! Unfortunately, this is not a royal crown, but that of a baron with the initials FS.

Emil Martin also was building guns with knob triggers similar to those of Johann Reeb. It was Martin, who claimed being the designer of some guns and rifles with Knopfabzug for emperor Kaiser Wilhelm II who was handicapped with a crippled left arm and had to shoot with one hand only. The whole story:

http://www.hunting-heritage.com/blog/index.php/2016/05/23/push-not-pull-a-rare-ou-of-e-martin-bonn/

Waidmannsheil,
Wolfgang

Thank you both. Very interesting, so that would be a lower class of nobility, probably no way to figure out who it actually belonged to then? Any estimate as to date of manufacture? From reading another thread on here, I'm presuming this is pre WWI. Are the proof marks from the Suhl proofhouse? And is the gun proofed for nitro or just black powder?

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The >>Clockhand<< indicators remind me of the Early Sauers, but I do not see any Sauer process marks.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The tubes were soured from the formidable „Schilling-Schmiede“(Gegründet: 1862 - ( „Grüberhammer“ dating back to 2 years before the U.S. of A. Independence(1774))with Stephan(Sylvestr.??) Schilling doing the heavy lifting on the tubeset effort.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Looks like Emil Martin sourced the longarm „in the white“ or as a >>Gesteck<< from J.J.(Johann Jakob-Gegründet: 1857) Reeb. Wolfgang, you live there aren't you related to either of the makers?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Lovely, just lovely adornment.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

thread for the DRGM 17913 Sauer „Clockhand“ indicators:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=446272

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

If you pull the locks, images of the complicated side might provide some clues.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

My small frame Sauer sidelock had/has those clock like indicators. However one has been broken off. As my restock/restoration proceeds I’ve been debating with myself. Cut the arm off the good one, cut a line in the top of both and match them that way or try to have a new one made. Ugh!

I've sent it off to a gunsmith to check it out, also to have the barrels honed and polished as there was a fair amount of pitting in the bore. I will ask if he can send me pictures when he takes it apart. As far as proof on the barrels, I believe this was only proofed for black powder, not nitro. Is that correct? It's my understanding that mild (6Kish PSI) smokeless loads with 3/4 to 7/8 oz shot are still safe in guns like this.

I put a penny in front of the firing pins to safely pull the triggers before packing it up, both indicators worked flawlessly on it. Hell of an indent in the penny though.

Yes, Blackpowder only on the proof effort. I would say it dates to the mid to late 1890s.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

>>Papp. 16-65, 4,75 S.P.(Dram Eq. Powder), 28,5 grammes lead shot<<

Load data from a similar one from the period.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I'm very familiar with smokeless powder reloading, not so much black powder. If I'm reading that correctly (4 and 3/4 drams black powder under 1 oz shot), that seems like an extremely stout load. Just a quick estimation, but wouldn't that be over 10,000 PSI, with the shot in excess of 1300 feet per second?