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Forums10
Topics37,430
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Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
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Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 7
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 7 |
Hi My grandfather supposedly bought this gun from the Canadian department store Simpsons (later Simpsons Sears) Thanks to you guys I have figured out most of the marks on the gun, I would like to have help finding a date other than the generic 1898-1924 time frame. So far I have figured out that it is a belgium made 16ga and I have identified proof marks from one of the prior threads. Can anyone help me with an exact date, a manufacturer or a estimated value? Thanks Mearns Bore and Choke 1898-1924 CHOKE 16.2 16.9 PROOF MARKS d=70 d=70 18.9 19.0 Weight of Barrel after Smokeless Proof 1892-1924 P 1K360.8 [img] https://postimg.cc/gallery/kKTv54T[/img]
Last edited by Mearns; 12/28/22 05:18 PM. Reason: URL for photos, more info
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Joined: Dec 2022
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
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Side of the barrel says: "amtlich vierfach geprueft u. eingeschossen mit staerkster ladung rauchlosen pulvers" which translates: "officially quadruple examined and shot in with strongest load of smokeless powder"
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 462 Likes: 36
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 462 Likes: 36 |
The way the chokes are illustrated on barrel can help with date. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/LveZE4C.jpg)
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1 member likes this:
Mearns |
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Joined: Jan 2020
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 462 Likes: 36 |
There may be a date code(letter) on barrel flats also that would give proof date. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/dSDfXcE.png)
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1 member likes this:
Mearns |
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
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Okay that narrows it to 1910-1924 Getting narrower. Thanks Here is a better picture of the barrel flat. https://ibb.co/cXQ8ctH
Last edited by Mearns; 12/28/22 09:04 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 462 Likes: 36
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 462 Likes: 36 |
The AOD in circle is the barrel guy or steel I can’t remember but will look. Others will let us know what that is just has slipped my mind. May be ACD acier cockerill dumoulin? Can’t remember.
Last edited by Jtplumb; 12/29/22 12:44 AM.
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1 member likes this:
Mearns |
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Posts: 5,311 Likes: 86 |
USAF RET 1971-95
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1 member likes this:
Mearns |
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
Amtlich Vierfach Geprüft und Eingeschossen mit Stärkster ladung Rauchlosen Pulvers
Czech version - Uredne Ctyrnasobne Zkousena a Nastrelena Nejsilnejsim Nabojem Bezdýmného Prachu
The text was just Belgian advertising assuring the end user that their cheap wares would withstand the National Proof Test of the end country. It was only used for a few years.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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1 member likes this:
Mearns |
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Too, that diameter stamp was also only used for a short period.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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1 member likes this:
Mearns |
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
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There are a few more marks on the rib valley between the barrels. These are spaced out 77 1 P S
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Joined: Dec 2022
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
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So I guess to conclude this, it is pretty much a no-name department store gun from Belgium made between 1910-1924, and probably holds little value other than personal sentimental value. It kicks like a mule......
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
Um, yes the Department store(or importer probably) as typical did not want any names or marks to point to an actual maker. Although on the frame somewhere on under the buttplate might be a clue.
I would want to say that that powder test advertising ceased around WWI and for sure after WWI all this price-point importing from Belgium ceased and makers, dealers, whatever in the U.S. of A. had to source locally.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
Considering your account of the path taken by the longarm, I do find it hard to believe considering the Belgian Powder test advertising in German on a Anson & Deeley Body Action platform destined to Canada. I would say it was a WWI trophy and brought back to Canada. Interesting too is that not only does it have a Greener Crossbolt & side clips, but an added lockup from the toplever?
There are initials in the well of the frame, but I cannot make them out from the fotos.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Dec 2022
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
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I don't know how to post pictures in the thread, but I tried to take a few better photos through the magnifying glass of the barrel stock. https://postimg.cc/gallery/Sz6ftvw It is quite possible that Grampa brought it back from WWII and the story from Sears was fabricated. Yes interesting twin triggers rather than a barrel reset. https://postimg.cc/PPrmRJtR
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
![[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]](https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/e9/49/OcoYY49D_t.jpg) ![[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]](https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/0f/61/tpxomldQ_t.jpg) The marks from these areas will point to a mechanic or subcontractor that contributed much of the effort. ![[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]](https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/93/bb/ZQ0ZuPh8_t.jpg) The marks in this well on the top of the floorplate may be that of the frame filer, actioner or maker. Serbus, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
The >>77<< you note is an assemble number to keep the components together as the Gesteck/Parts Kit travels from one shop to another
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
The encircled >>ACD<< is probably for Acier Cockerill Delcour-Dupont.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
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I don't think I can get any better photos of those marks, pretty undecipherable even with a jewelers lens. But on the receiver maybe IGIN or forward slash /GIN
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,487 Likes: 123 |
If you move the toplever you should be able to see more of the characters or just take the floorplate off to view.
Serbus,
Raimey
rse
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fGHNYt5/IMG-20221227-114527.jpg)