doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com J P Sauer Tell rifle model V 9,3x57r/360 reloadin

Is little screw for adjusting "set trigger" is missing?

Yes, it appears that the set screw is missing. You know, I think I have a later Modell in the came kalibre?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

9372

I have an Austrian rifle from ca.1896 in the caliber 9,3x57R/360. I do reload the cartridge and I have done some search for original ballistical data.

Your rifle has only proof marks for black powder, BP. Rifling is of Express type, intended for lead bullets
Loading (and firing!) a 9,3x72R cartridge in a 9,3x57R/360 chamber should not be possible. I assume the chamber of your rifle was opened up at some time. Lack of additional proof marks indicates this operation was "Pfusch" / butchery....
The 9,3x57R/360 comes from a time when ballistical tables where unknown. By the time the German ammunition companies DWM and RWS started to publish ballistical charts, around 1930, the 9,3x57R/360 was becoming obsolete there. I never saw any German velocity or pressure data, for BP or for nitro loads. I know comparable pressure and velocity data from old German sources only for the 9,3x72R. There are British data for the .360 2 1/4 Express for BP, NfB and Nitro loads, but that again is a different cartridge.

My Austrian rifle has original BP proof marks, and additional Nitro proof from the time between 1938 and 1945. So there must have been 9,3x57R/360 Nitro loads in Austria, and apparently also from Czech and Slovak factories.
Your cartridges are very interesting! Are there any ballistical data ? Did you chronograph them?

On reloading:

Pressure:
there is no max. pressure published for the 9,3x57R/360.
The 2450 bar value applies to the 9,3x72R, to be used in sound, stout and nitro proofed guns.
With my reloading I have tried to stay around BP pressure levels, not more than ca 1200 bar according to Quickload calculations.

Bullets:
never anything else than lead, or the soft-jacketed TESCO type bullets.
Other bullets intended for 9,3x62 may have thicker jackets, maybe thicker diameter, may increase pressure, and make no sense anyway if loaded at BP pressure levels.
I have used the 193 grain jacketed bullets from RWS, DWM and S&B, and 193 grain lead bullets from Haendler&Natermann.
Your 72U bullets are old RWS bullets, nice find!

Powders:
for jacketed bullets I use Rottweil R901, 28 to 30 grains, v0 is ca. 500 to 540 m/s
for lead bullets I still have some SR4759 , 18,5 grains give v0 around 440 m/s. Unfortunately this powder is not available any more.
Lovex powders are not available in Switzerland, where I live.

Best regards
fuhrmann

Hi, later models (after 1920) has a slide safety, not butterfly. How accurate is it? What do xou shooting in it? By serial number you can find exact year, look here:

Maybe this one is better

Hello Fuhrmann!
Thank you very much!
Bullets type 72U-my friend in Germany has a custom mold made for these bullets. He lives at south west corner near the french border. Maybe he can make some for xou if you like.
Yes, its ex amnesty firearm, so it wasnt registered at the police for who knows how many decades and how many different rounds /9,3x72r and loadings been shot through it. Still is very solid, if I put sheet of paper 0,06mm thick in the action, I cant close the gun. I cant see any real marks at the beginning of the rifling, I guess it was just polished till would accept 9,3x72r cartridge-this is why factory sellier bellot is flying fast from it-668m/s its at the max speed in load data at 2000bar.Here is what I found on the forum: Crown over B denotes proof in the final state. Until the 1912 rules change, the voluntary proof w/ the load data was an additional cost, so it wasn't employed all the time.
I have 1906 drilling were shotgun barrels are nitro proof and rifle one is not. Additional cost of proof kind of explaining it. Tell rifles been made for 40years 1896-1936 and I dont think so they been change appart for safety and také diwn/easy change of barrel Bolt. Been made in 6,5x58r too and there is max pressure I think 2800bar. Sturdy little rifles.
Its just a picture of the ammo box made in Czechoslovakia in Povazske strojárne, in week or two Ill get some rounds from Dorfner and maybe some old Czechoslovakian cartridges, I'll test them and let you know. On the old boxes is marked powder Sm 5, 2,59g with 12,5g bullet.
Here is one BP load from an old catalouges. Says 2,7g BP with 12,3g lead bullet, at 25m =400m/s 102 mkg.

I read somewhere that original nitro load was cca 1700fps with 12,5g bullet.

I am not @ all sure on the SM5 - R5 relationship. But I have loaded several of the 360 BPE variants with VV N140 and it brings the groups to a whole different level. I did however purchase several 8lb kegs to hold with the same production lot of powder because I had read that over the years the same powder may vary???

Raimey
rse

The J.P. Sauer tipup of which I am a custodian wears number 209890 & wears a proof date of 535, with a bullet weight of 13 grammes. It does have the Butterfly toggle.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

By serial number it was made in 1915.
1914-203.801
1915-212.801