doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help Date Army & Navy Hammer Gun

Any help in dating this Army & Navy (W&C SCOTT & SON) 12 ga Hammer gun would be greatly appreciated. Serial # 1281

That one should be easy. I believe that the University of Glasgow has the Army & Navy records.

They do. They gave me all the details for my Rook rifle, for a modest fee.

HB

Nigel Brown only has serial numbers beginning at 1890 and starting serial number 3,466. Not a ton of help unfortunately.

Interesting gun Dale. The barrels look to have been sleeved, and should be so marked.
The faint damascus or laminated steel pattern can be seen at the breech.
The original proof marks may have been removed at the time of the sleeving, and new marks placed.
We need a full size in focus close up of the barrel flats and just forward of the flats (I couldn't enhance your image enough to read the marks) - there should be a London date code for the reproof (LP over the year).

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/w-c-scott-son-help-with-id-and-value.242236/
In 1883, William Middleditch Scott patented a self-opening action (No. 727) for back-action locks (made between 1882 and 1887)

If indeed pre-1887 the original proof marks may have been on the barrel rather than the flats.

Yes Drew they are sleeved Damascus barrels. I see no proof marks anywhere so I would guess the sleeving was done in USA.
I will get more pics tomorrow.
Thank you everyone for the help.

Oh that is neat! What is the weight?

6lb 13 oz

[img]https://ww[URL=https://www.jpg...w.jpgbox.com/jpg/70490_800x600.jpg[/img]w.jpgbox.com/jpg/70489_800x600.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Never mind The patent is clearly 1727, which I couldn't find.
It's possible that the '727' in the IGG text is a typo.
I still think the gun dates to pre-1887 and the original proof marks were on the amputated barrels.

Not likely the SN will help. Scott made guns for a lot of other "makers". I owned a pair of Army & Navy 12 bores made by Webley & Scott. Found that out from the University of Glasgow's Army & Navy records. The SN in question will be an A&N SN, not a Webley & Scott SN.

Assuming (almost certain ) the original forend hook was used in re-sleeving then the number stamped on it is where W.C. Scott put their factory number on guns the built for others in the trade.

Can you get a clear read on it?

Parabola The numbers there have been filed off.
Thank you

Just send an email to the University of Glasgow. They will respond with a sale date and offer more information for a modest fee.

Thank you Joe I just did that.

Same JPB patent mark
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=574247

The locks are stamped Stanton & Co Is that of any significance?

Dr. Drew and others . That number 1727 is most likely the patent use number, not the patent number.


And this comes from hours of looking at this rabbit hole. See the last post here:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=608758&page=4

Add: Stanton built high quality and expensive locks for the trade. Others know more.

Here you go Dale
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=522397

This sadly relic W.C. Scott built Army and Navy 12 bore bar action hammer gun shows the W.C. Scott makers number of 36956 for 1885 on the front bottom rib.

The Birmingham Proof Marks are Pre-1887 format, but the word CHOKE appears on the same barrel as NOT FOR BALL, so there seems to have been some overlap.

It would be more helpful if I could be sure which way up the Army and Navy serial number is. 1609 or 6091?

I finally got a Reply from Glasgow Library.

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Army & Navy Shotgun, serial no. 2181. According to the Army & Navy registers of stock and sales of guns that we hold, your gun was originally purchased by Colonel Mailland on the 8th August 1885 for £23.0.0 (our ref FRAS 309/2 p 2). The date of invoice from the manufacturer is the 19th November 1883. The bore number is recorded as 12.

Unfortunately, our records do not contain the date of manufacture itself, so we have no way of providing you with this. Apologies for any inconvenience this causes.

We have attached copies of the full entry.

There is no charge for this service, but if you are happy with the work we’ve done for you, please consider making a donation to support the preservation of our collections: https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/archivespecialcollections/whatwedo/sponsorourcollections/