doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com question for our english friends

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Interesting video, but I guess if you have to ask how much you can’t afford a box….

Currently Eley VIP Bismuth £1,359/1000 as against Eley Grand Prix (lead) £409/1000.

So on a driven day if you shoot 4 boxes your day will cost you £95 more, which is likely to be a small fraction of the overall costs of your day.

Not that I could afford either!

I do not act in any capacity other than a driven game shot with a desire to ensure I kill my game rapidly and cleanly. I have doubts about the effective lethality of steel shot compared to lead. I also have doubts about the use of steel shot fired through a lovely old English game gun, such as those I use.

I am well aware that tests have been carried out by game shots, in the field, claiming they shot steel through old English guns and noticed no difference from lead. However, I have chosen to look at other alternatives to lead than steel, the lethality of which I have concern about. Although bismuth is clearly the favoured alternative, it is expensive and the more so if you like to use your chosen game cartridge to practice at clays during the off season. That is why I was interested in trialing the Bio Ammo Blue for myself.

In quoting what Bio Ammo say about their mixture (in brackets in my post) I would point out that they say ".. producing performance similar to that of lead." They do not claim that it can 'reproduce the ballistics of Pb'. Pedantic of me perhaps, but I am most interested in the lethality of their ammunition.

Diggory wrote a good little article on BioAmmo Blue last year, here: https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/blue-is-the-colour Since then they have started to manufacture 67mm cases.

Tim

[quote

I am well aware that tests have been carried out by game shots, in the field, claiming they shot steel through old English guns and noticed no difference from lead. [/quote]

Well I have met a few who, in the field, wouldn't notice a difference if there was no shot at all!

Seriously though, the main availability issue here (UK) seems to be for suitable non toxic ammunition (and particularly steel) compatible with 2 1/2" chambers. There are some advertised, but actually getting your hands on a box to try seems impossible. In theory, you can get 1000 to order, but no one I have found locally will sell you just a box to try. I do not want to buy 1000 of something that is 'no good' or on which the wads degrade with time quite quickly.
I have read very 'mixed' things about Eleys "Pro Eco Wads" .......... many not being at all impressed.

I have just re-read Diggory's article, where he states that the BioAmmo alloy is more dense than mild steel. I took one apart last week and twenty of its size 5 pellets (3.0 to 3.2mm diameter) weighed 15% LESS than twenty mild steel pellets (3.0mm diameter) from either Gamebore or Lyalvale.

Has anyone else done any similar tests??

HB

JfroUK

I think you are mistaken..... to quote me as above.?

Richard Atkins in 2021
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/ammunition/non-toxic-ammunition
BioAmmo Blue...launches a new type of shot that comprises an alloy mix of four metals: bismuth, tin, zinc and aluminium.
With none of the ingredients being so dense as lead, the alloy pellets are obviously lighter, size for size, than lead. 10 Blue alloy pellets weighed 15.4 grains and 10 No 5 lead weighed 19.6 grains. (That is about 22% less)
The crush test figures show the pellets are substantially harder than lead shot...(though) substantially softer than steel, but we must assume that pellets are still best kept away from barrel walls.
Speed of the load was 1371 fps at 2.5 meters from muzzle, which would be close to 1400 fps at the SAAMI 3 feet standard.
Pressure of the 27 gram = .95 oz. load was 8688 psi


https://egunroom.com/bioammo-blue-shotgun-cartridges/
This alloy is softer than steel but slightly harder than lead: using the Vickers hardness test lead has an HV (the unit of hardness) of 45, steel has an HV of 120, whilst Bioammo’s alloy sits between them with an HV of 60


BioAmmo USA
https://bioammo.es/archivos/2021/12/BIOAMMO-USA.pdf

Aluminum is used in the alloy mix?

Thank you Drew. I have just looked up the numbers again, and the relative densities are:

Lead: 11,343
Iron: 7,300

Bismuth: 9,600
Tin: 7,260
Zinc: 7,070
Aluminium: 2,705 only

Until someone analyses some BioAmmo pellets we do not know the ratio of elements used, but if we assume 25% of each then its ratio will be 6,660. This is 59% of the density of lead, or 91% of the density of Iron. My weighings showed it to be more like 85% of the density of iron.

So my hunch remains that Bioammo will be useful in older guns at shorter ranges. It will be difficult to get many into a 2.5" cartridge case.

In any case all this is academic as Bioammo is now sold out here in Britain for this season, according to JustCartridges. Maybe next year will bring some improved loadings...

HB