doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Drilling identify

Came across this German drilling. 12x12x8,57mm. Proofed 12.33

Not familiar with the maker. On rib the engraving:

Gerb. Praunsmandtl Ingolstadt

Any info welcome. Proofed 12.33

GEBR. PRAUNSMANDTL, INGOLSTADT
Please display some pics it may help.

On the rib


Barrel flats


Rifle markings


Side view


Unique feature is the cocking for the Rifle Barrel. Large thumb slide on top strap when pushed forward cocks the rifle hammer and flips up the rear rifle sight blade.

Gebrüder Praunsmändtl in Ingolstadt(Bavaria). Emil Praunsmändtl was probably one of the principles.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Wilhlem Kelber contributed effort & it looks as if there was a Reproof effort in 1933.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

The name on the rib is likely the marketer rather than the maker. It would have been made for "the trade" by one of the Suhl makers and sold to them for marketing to the end user. The "made for the trade" guns were often marked with the marketer's name, but not always. The shot barrels show the crown R "repair" proof, but the "repair" is not obvious from what can be seen. If there is a "70' stamped on the extractor or somewhere near the circle 12 that would indicate the shot chambers were legenthened from 2 5/8" to 2 3/4" and reproofed.
Mike

More photos



Rifle cocker and blade sight raiser


Rifle blade with rib insert

The 12.33 would be the date of reproof?

Very nice drilling with usable caliber. Congratulations

Thank you. I cannot find any marking indicating 70mm for chamber length. My chamber gauge indicates 2 5/8. Do you know when the German proof house started stamping 'Nitro' on these arms?

For Suhl - >>Nitro<< was 1912 & for Z-M it was 1911 for the rules change. Just by where the R surmounted by a Crown are located, I would think it was for a chamber lengthening??

It is a Kerner-Anson platform so that will also put a date bounds on it.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Wondering as to the connection? Sold Mercedes and firearms?

Boys Praunsmändtl did exist post WWII, so I guess it is possible that they were used car salesmen along with being firearms merchants. Did the address Ludwigstraße 26 pop up associated with them?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

This photo is from Ingolstadt I believe, no street address as I see it.

https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/german-side-by-side-shotgun.122141/

I did find this exchange, interesting.

from memory, suhl proofs started including the block lettered Nitro mark in april of 1912.

best regards,
tom

I now have acquired the necessary brass, bullets and dies to get this one shooting once more. A Lyman load manual from the 1950's provides a mild load using 4198 powder ar 1800 fps which I will use to start.

If you can lay your hands on some VV N140, it is similar to the original R5(Rottweil No. 5) which some of the old cartridges were loaded. Too, there a reduced load for it that has some excellent accuracy. I'll have to dig thru my notes.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Where did you find the .318 bullets?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010852468

Like these??? Midway did have several of them? What weight?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Those would be great were they not out of stock/discontinued and made by a company that is no longer in business. His bullet looks to be much lighter. I assume some European companies are still making them but getting them over here would be the problem I guess.
Maybe from here: https://shop.reedsammo.com/318-Jacketed-Bullets-8mm-J-Bore_c380.htm

https://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

Woodleighs are coming available very soon???

How many might you need?


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Bullets, .323" can easily be sized to .318", I believe some, if not all, of the .318" bullets offered by Buffalo Arms (and maybe Reed) have been resized from .323" to keep the customers from having to do it. In my experience the 8x57IR/IRS shoot better with bullets closer to 200 grains, than very light ones. I believe this is because the throats that were reamed long enough for the original 200 + grain (237? gr) bullets, leave the light (short) bullets unsupported after leaving the case neck and before engaging the rifling. This is just one person's experience, however.
Mike

Mike, your mention of 237 grain 8mm bullets brought up a painful memory for me. Painful because I no longer have the rifle. It was a beautiful Lee Sporter in 8x50R Hungarian. The rationale for having it in 8x50R must have been that the 237 grain bullet was infinitely better for game than the 212(?) grain bullet of the 303. Or, perhaps it was going to be used in a country where the military 303 was not permitted. Whatever, it was a great shooter and now I'm sorry that I let it get away.

I have a Whistler double, which was a silversmith who sold guns. There were some odd situations in the day. Likely a main business that had some extra floor space. Maybe the guns had to be dropped postwar and the cars took over?

HalfaDouble.
I can see how the memory of getting rid of the Lee can be painful, but you can take solace in the fact that you were likely to acquire another gun that you may have not been able to acquire otherwise. That is how I deal with trading odd a Ross in .280, Colt Ace, and others.
Mike

Halfadouble, I got these from Reed. Thought I would try out the lighter grain bullet and then move up to the 196 grain later.