doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Diggory digs American guns??? I don't know

I think Dig may have missed the DGJ article years ago about the Fox gun that lived as a rental piece at the English shooting grounds for most of 100 years. I seem to think Tom Kidd wrote the article, not positive, but, the gun held up as well, or, better than the English stuff did, was serviced right along side the English stuff, and was a favorite of English shooters on the grounds.
Anytime someone prattles on about Purdeys and quality, I think of Edsel (or was it Henry II?) Ford's matched set of Purdey's, from "between the wars" ( Uh, WWII and Korea) and what complete pieces of crap those guns are.
Best,
Ted

there isn't much to debate low grade birmingham made g.e. lewis blne was better put together then my stelingworth ejector and could be bought for $300 less.
american guns are not that bad just think you could be stuck with ole' german or belgian thingy with tight bores choked f/x-f that's good only for making "fist size" holes in woodern doors at long range! what makes english guns great is simple fact that one can actually hit something on the wing with them.

My Remington sxs must fit in with German and Belgian guns when it comes to chokes

Ah, but take a 1913 16ga Sauer Model VIII F/F and a gunsmith hunting buddy to open them to C/IC and look what you've got for the blind and bush: a pleasure to look at and a pleasure to shoot. Add those beautiful RMC brass and, Look Ma, I'm on top of the world!

Writers write for the readers enjoyment and many readers want to have their viewpoint confirmed in what they read. Bear this in mind when you read a article. Those which do not go with the flow seem to be rather rare. Hard to get published if the editor does not want to publish your work.

Dig makes a few real point and confirms a few solidly held views at the same time. It boils down to American buyers seem to like high original condition more than higher grade guns with heavy wear or lots of refinishing. It is like buying antiques. Original condition and lack of wear is king and heavily refinished or well worn will destroy the collectors interest.

One other thing that I think needs to be considered. Most Americans can easily own many guns, not just a single or a few. So we can afford to put a premium on condition over higher grades or quantity over quality of one high grade gun or several worn out guns. My gun room has multiple Lefevers, Fox, etc.... If I could own only one gun I might try to make it as high grade as I could. But given the choice of one 30-50K gun or many guns for the same money I like the variety. If I lived in a country where more than one gun was a real problem to own I might go for only a best gun.

KY Jon, good points about what people collect when they are allowed to collect. Quite a dig on the Brits. However, Diggory is trying to climb the wrong tree when he criticizes us for searching for condition "without regard for quality". We do not look for condition only in farmer grade guns. We look for condition in all guns we collect, just like the Brits do. Unfortunately, the Brits seem to enjoy abusing their guns with files and honing tools to such an extent that untouched examples are quite rare. He is the one who exposes the abuse of his country's guns in his DGJ articles. He of all people should praise the colonists for their love of average guns that are untouched by bad gunsmiths.

Good call Ben-T. I wouldn't know a Diggory from a "play your Diggery-Doo" nor do I care a whit about Limey guns- try and find 2&1/2" short shells at Mammoth-Mart during bird season-or cricket season. What "Da Dig-ster" forgets is: American boxlock ejector guns, at least the superior ones like the Fox, the Ithaca NID, the Parker and the "King of 4140 AISI" the great Model 21- all kicked some Limey "arse" in the John Olin test- the overpriced Purdey blew apart after 60 rounds, the M21 went 2000 (1000 in each barrel) then was stripped down and gauged for wear-Nope-NONE they could find, re-assembled and went right on a shooting. Ask the Limey's to build you a single trigger double- they'll defer with their olde "two barrels-two triggers" and the M21, even without Jack O'Connor's great "cheer-leading" is the ONLY boxlock ejector grade double I would buy with a factory single trigger, next the Fox-Kautsky--And old "Cactus Jack" wrote in 1965 The Shotgun Book- "A fine English made double, or even better, a matched pair- is a status symbol, like a yacht or a French mistress- We kicked the Redcoats out in 1779-status be damned, and American shotgunners/hunters favor heavy loads-game is still somewhat open to all, not a priviledge of the rich and inter-bred as in England, and we have "rough shooting", not a floosy grouse moor or a driven pheasant shoot with peasants doing the driving and Lord Faunteroy doing the shooting (or shooting at). Collecting fine British double guns is like the Matzloff-Ponzi recent stock market "crap game" rigged in favor of the "insiders" and the average Joe 12-Pack who longs for a nice used 12 gauge Model 21 to use afield is priced out of even that market by the "hustlers" and insiders-and the dead rooster your bird dog just retrieved for you doesn't much know if he died from a shotload from an 870 or from a Holland & Holland Royal-

purdey is shotgun for guy that is driven by rolls royce, owns jet or two, has several villas, wears patek philippe (or lange un shone), gucci leather, writes with gold cartier pen,...... i have examined sxs and o/u from them and for luv of god can't understand what people see in them. i pinched my nose when i had it in my hands and i felt the pain.

to some new purdey is not an expensive gun. it's sorta like me buying brand new cz-huglu.
basically it's a gun for hombre who was born with platinum spoon in their mouth (think bush family, kennedy family,....)or has someone else making money for them. lets face it most folks that work themselves for living will not be able to own new purdey, holland,....of course if you're us senator, bank executive, steal people's life savings (think enron), ,.....anything is possible.

The reason - the only real reason - people buy Purdeys is so they can lean against the bar, order a dry martini, and drolly mention that they just purchased a brace of shotguns. I don't think it is legal to use the term 'brace of shotguns' unless they are Purdeys.