doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Researching an heirloom Fred Adolph Genoa NY 20ga

I am a doublegun.com outsider who is currently assisting my brother-in-law in researching the history, value and provenance of an heirloom Fred Adolph, Genoa, NY 20 gauge, side by side shotgun in its original wood case that has been quietly handed down through several generations of our family.

I'm here because in my research I came across an extensive 2007 thread on doublegunshop.com forum with information about Fred Adolph guns. One of the post’s contributors, Michael Petrov, who it sadly appears passed away in 2014, expounded on the history of Fred Adolph’s work. The extensive dialogue around Fred Adolph’s guns and history suggested there may be more enthusiasts with knowledge of this gun’s maker who might be able to assist our quest to establish its history and value. We’re hoping that with your collective and extensive experience with collectible firearms some of you might be able to shed some light on the importance and collectability of this particular gun.

We can trace ownership back to a great grandfather who lived his whole life in Auburn NY (1869-1937) quite near Genoa, NY but we have no paperwork related to original purchase. One intriguing clue regards the trigger guard which is monogramed in gold with the initials WBS.

While we have some experience with shotguns we are neither gun enthusiasts or collectors ourselves. This being the case, the family may consider putting this shotgun on the market, so we’re also researching what might be the best way to offer it for sale. We’re reaching out to a number of experts for appraisals, advice and suggestions if and when we do chose to sell it. But at this point we are primarily interested in educating ourselves before determining the next step.

Thanks for any help you can offer. We appreciate any knowledge or referrals you might be able to offer that could help us learn more about the importance and value of this particular gun. Thanks, Tim H and Tim F

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/xshWijash5TqtSBw5[/img]


There are guys who know a lot about German guns .its to bad you don't want to keep a great family gun like this, it is artwork on a gun

Hey 2 Tims -

Nice looking gun. Thanks for sharing. Does it have a retractable sling in the butt?

Do you have any pics of the markings on the underside of the barrels? How long are the bbls? Any pitting or marks inside the bbls?

What does it say on the rib/top of the bbls?

OWD

John Allen in Franklin Tennessee is a good appraiser. I would guess it would bring 6k on GB. Just an educated guess. After an appraisal you can decide to list with big auction house or sell directly to someone like Lock Stock and Barrel or GH. BEAUTIFUL gun though!

obsessed w dbls - yes, it does have a retractable sling. i pulled it out about ten inches with no trouble but didn't go any further, not knowing what it was all about. Top side of both barrels are marked KRUPP STAHL in a circle and GERMANY across middle of circle. Underside each barrel stamped KRUPP. Each barrel also stamped with two hexagonal impressions with a raised "S" inside and a smaller stamp that i can't read. I did not inspect inner barrels and don't have the gun here to do so. I can say there was no evidence of rust or pitting anywhere else on the gun. I'll ask my bro-in-law to inspect. Also I'll try to add photos of details described above asap. thanks.

Thanks!

TDH,
There are a couple sources of information for Fred Adolph and his guns. The German Gun Collectors Assn. Published a special edition of the Assn's. publication DER WAFFENSCHMEID relating to Adoloph. If there are any left (likely), you can buy one for a reasonable price. Also, the website German Hunting Guns has a good bit of information concerning him. This site was recently hacked and was infected by a virus. It is currently being redone with a different server and I have been informed it will be completed within the next few days. I hope this helps you.
Mike

I have added a few more photos in the original link. here it is again. (Hope i am doing this correctly. i'm unfamiliar with the functions on posting)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xshWijash5TqtSBw5

Could you pleasure us with an image of the other flat of the ejector gun and also the water-table? Is the word >>Safe<< on the top tang?


The stamps of the S in a Chevron note the Krupp tubes were sourced from the Schilling forge and more than likely performed a couple tasks on the tubes.

AW are the initials of the tubeset knitter and I will search for matches.


I would 1st guess the longarm originated in Zella-Mehlis and the adornment was either by Gustav Ernst or a student of Ernst. I do not think at all that Austrian Rudolph Kornbrath contributed any effort. An American engraver would not have put an Auerhahn/Capercaillie on the floorplate. The Anson & Deeley Body Action longarm looks to be for export and was totally made in Zella - Mehlis. The word >>Stahl<< on the tubes were read instead Steel if the tubes were sourced in the rough bore state from Germany. Too, with the steel terms Krupp & Germany coupled, that would note export as every German well knew Krupp. The tubes wear the preliminary shot test but I am curious where the full regiment of German proofmarks might be? One might say that Fred Adolph worked them off in making the longarm. But I state that is a very low probability and Fred Adolph had connections, didn't want to pay for the proof fee and since the longarm was destined to a country that did not have proof laws, then managed to circumvent the German proof effort. Fred Adolph made few guns, maybe finished a few stocks? But the sourced his wares from the talented mechanics from Suhl & Zella-Mehlis. Look at his business modell & why he went broke. He wasn't sourcing components and finishing weapons, he was purchasing them completed in the final state. That's what broke him when clients didn't pay.

Also, with the tubeset knitter being a German mechanic, the longarm was brought to a final state in Germany and shipped to the U.S. of A. Fred Adolph was a Firearms merchant @ Best and had bolts of Wool.

More images of the marks will substantiate the above hypothesis, actually reality.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Alfred Wilhelm of Zella-Mehlis comes to mind as the tubeset knitter and he is appropriate for the time period.

Emil Wilhelm could be the Schäfter or stocker as they may have wanted to keep the work in the family???

Otto Weiss might have been the Schäfter too??

Serbus,

Raimey
rse