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JNW #618041 08/12/22 08:14 PM
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Steve,do you boil and card between cycles?

JNW #618042 08/12/22 08:23 PM
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I do boil and hand card between each cycle.


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JNW #618043 08/12/22 08:29 PM
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I have to blue a few barrels I'm going to see what happens if I boil and card before orange color shows up in my rust cabinate it converts really quickly .the reason I asked about boiling and carding a guy I know would rust card and rust again for 6 to 10 cycles then boil his bluing looked great I don't remember what he used. Mark

JNW #618047 08/12/22 09:37 PM
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For blacking I rarely go past 6 cycles, maybe 8. Rust times are 1 hour at 90°and 60% humidity. Damascus barrels take a little bit more time. I normally hand card, but gave a carding wheel a try this last time and it worked pretty well (I can’t tell a difference in the finish vs. my usual hand carding). It cut the carding time down significantly, (5 to 10 minutes of hand carding vs. like a minute or two with the wheel and I’m done.)
Like Steve….I rarely ever see or get to the point of orange or red rust….in fact most of time the rust is a grayish green color, sometimes you can’t even see that….but after about 6 minutes in the boiling tank, they start turning jet black. I boil for a full 10 minutes to ensure full conversion.

JNW #618048 08/12/22 10:54 PM
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I use a carding wheel, in my bluing cabinate it can convert really quickly I wanted to see if anyone has tried rusting carding then boiling after a number of passes mabey I'll give it a try see what happens.mark

LeFusil #618075 08/13/22 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LeFusil
For blacking I rarely go past 6 cycles, maybe 8. Rust times are 1 hour at 90°and 60% humidity. Damascus barrels take a little bit more time. I normally hand card, but gave a carding wheel a try this last time and it worked pretty well (I can’t tell a difference in the finish vs. my usual hand carding). It cut the carding time down significantly, (5 to 10 minutes of hand carding vs. like a minute or two with the wheel and I’m done.)
Like Steve….I rarely ever see or get to the point of orange or red rust….in fact most of time the rust is a grayish green color, sometimes you can’t even see that….but after about 6 minutes in the boiling tank, they start turning jet black. I boil for a full 10 minutes to ensure full conversion.

I have seen LeFusil's barrel blacking and barrel browning work----- he is getting excellent results; and he is well on his way to in the future being able to duplicate the best London barrel blacking.

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bushveld #618077 08/13/22 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bushveld
Originally Posted by LeFusil
For blacking I rarely go past 6 cycles, maybe 8. Rust times are 1 hour at 90°and 60% humidity. Damascus barrels take a little bit more time. I normally hand card, but gave a carding wheel a try this last time and it worked pretty well (I can’t tell a difference in the finish vs. my usual hand carding). It cut the carding time down significantly, (5 to 10 minutes of hand carding vs. like a minute or two with the wheel and I’m done.)
Like Steve….I rarely ever see or get to the point of orange or red rust….in fact most of time the rust is a grayish green color, sometimes you can’t even see that….but after about 6 minutes in the boiling tank, they start turning jet black. I boil for a full 10 minutes to ensure full conversion.

I have seen LeFusil's barrel blacking and barrel browning work----- he is getting excellent results; and he is well on his way to in the future being able to duplicate the best London barrel blacking.


Goodness! High praise indeed! Thank you Stephen, as you know, I couldn’t have gotten to this point without your fantastic help, encouragement and time. Thanks again!!

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JNW #618097 08/14/22 05:40 PM
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I don't let a heavy orange or red covering of rust appear on the bbls or parts before boiling.
It's not necessary.
It will of course produce a rust blue.
But for a layer or cycle to produce color after boiling, it's not necessary for that heavy accumulation.

I don't let the parts rust very long and like Lefusil states you can barely see the rust sometimes and they are ready for the boiling water.
The place where I hang bbls and parts is kind of dark, so I generally judge them as being ready (or not) by very gently dragging my finger tips down the surface.
If I can feel the drag of a coating formed,,they are ready. Feels about like a new piece of 800grit paper you are touching.

I know that goes against all the 'Don't ever touch the parts' advise. But I've been able to do that w/o any problem.
Dry hands,,what ever. I don't do any other handling of the parts during the process w/o wooden attachments or metal hangers.
Just that one very gentle touch to check if they are ready.

I think a lot of people assume the heavy rusting coat is necessary for rust bluing. Maybe that comes from seeing it used to do rust browning on Muzzle Loader bbls and parts.
They usually let them rust up pretty good. Seems like More is Gooder in that area.
If you want the matted look that's OK too. Sometimes it fits the piece being redone.
But it's not a necessity for a layer of color.

Express Rust Bluing , each swabbed on coating of soln produces an extremely thin layer of instant Rust. That in turn produces Blueing color just fine with every boiling cycle.
Why would there be a need for heavy rusting when doing Cold Rust Blue.

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Kutter #618104 08/15/22 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Kutter
I don't let a heavy orange or red covering of rust appear on the bbls or parts before boiling.
It's not necessary.
It will of course produce a rust blue.
But for a layer or cycle to produce color after boiling, it's not necessary for that heavy accumulation.

I don't let the parts rust very long and like Lefusil states you can barely see the rust sometimes and they are ready for the boiling water.
The place where I hang bbls and parts is kind of dark, so I generally judge them as being ready (or not) by very gently dragging my finger tips down the surface.
If I can feel the drag of a coating formed,,they are ready. Feels about like a new piece of 800grit paper you are touching.

I know that goes against all the 'Don't ever touch the parts' advise. But I've been able to do that w/o any problem.
Dry hands,,what ever. I don't do any other handling of the parts during the process w/o wooden attachments or metal hangers.
Just that one very gentle touch to check if they are ready.

I think a lot of people assume the heavy rusting coat is necessary for rust bluing. Maybe that comes from seeing it used to do rust browning on Muzzle Loader bbls and parts.
They usually let them rust up pretty good. Seems like More is Gooder in that area.
If you want the matted look that's OK too. Sometimes it fits the piece being redone.
But it's not a necessity for a layer of color.

Express Rust Bluing , each swabbed on coating of soln produces an extremely thin layer of instant Rust. That in turn produces Blueing color just fine with every boiling cycle.
Why would there be a need for heavy rusting when doing Cold Rust Blue.

Hello, Kutter;

Interesting statement that you made above about "don't ever touch the parts" and it caused me to think about Robin Brown and his video on color case hardening. Months ago when I first watched Robin's video, the single most interesting point of that video was after Robin ultrasonic cleaned the action and all it's parts, he then placed said parts into the crucible with his bare hands. Robin knows what to touch and what not to touch and when.

In the processes of color case hardening and rust blacking it became evident to me years ago that the most important component of these processes was technique and that technique was gained by years of experience. Of course, in the case of obtaining the famous "London style" gloss barrel blacking, the blacking solution formula is important. However, to my mind the technique is the most important or how else could several different barrel blackers in the UK get such glorious color and gloss from their work---all using their own formulas. 20 years ago I was visiting gun trade workshops at Price Street, Birmingham, England and went upstairs above the old Benj Wild shop and the barrel blacker let me watch him do some barrel blacking work---there was nothing about it that one would classify as clean and orderly as he took the barrels from the boiling water and "slung" the excess water from them against the nearly two hundred year old wooden workshop floor. But the results that he got from the entire process was the proof in the pudding. He knew what to touch and what not to touch and when and he also knew how long to let the pudding cook so to speak for best results.

Last edited by bushveld; 08/15/22 11:20 AM.
mc #619014 09/04/22 06:25 PM
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How did the Rust blue go Mark?


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