March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
2 members (Gunning Bird, Argo44), 363 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,005
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
Argo44 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/ite...barrelled-pinfire-sporting-gun-by-manton

A 20-BORE DOUBLE BARRELLED PINFIRE SPORTING GUN BY MANTON, 29.25inch sighted damascus barrels, border and scroll engraved rotary under lever action signed MATON, half stocked with chequered fore-end and wrist, border and scroll engraved steel mounts, serial no. 6324.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1127
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1127
Pretty gun but, according to what I've been led to believe, not a true Joe Manton gun. If I am incorrect in believing that Joseph Manton guns are always marked "Joseph Manton" or "J Manton" I would appreciate correction.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Joseph Manton died in. 1835. He went bankrupt in 1826 and Lang bought his gun inventory at that time. He was released from debtors prison in 1831 and went into business with his son making guns. After his death in 1835 the business persisted for several years. But I don’t recall much in guns made after 1838. There were multiple attempts to cash in on the Manton name by others for a very long time. Many guns made for export to India were marked Manton of various versions of the name.

In many ways this is like the Belgian Barkers, Parker’s, W. Richard not to be confused with the legit WRichards in GB, who was a real gunsmith, not a fake cashing in on a more famous namesake.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Still a nice looking gun though! Lagopus.....

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
Argo44 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
This would be John Manton & Sons of Dover Street, London. the company operated for many years through the 1840's, 50's, 60's. John Manton was one of the few gunmakers stamping bore sizes before they were required (Greener and Reilly being two others). He signed the famous open letter in the field in March 1858 supporting the reopening of the Military trials in favor of the Prince Patent breech loader.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

John was Joseph's brother. He died in 1834. The firm must have afterwards been run by his sons. IGC will have the history but I do not frequent that site after certain unpleasantness. Lagopus will know. We had a line discussing Manton & Co. in Calcutta once. (Lots of bad info available on the internet I understand).

Last edited by Argo44; 03/21/22 02:43 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
I brought forwards an old 2007 thread which should shed a bit more light on this gun. Seems their not best grade just got Manton on the side. Kind of like Fox creating the Sterlingworth company so the basic graded did not distract from his higher grades. Interesting how things sometimes work.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
Argo44 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
There's this line too.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=1&main=28689&type=thread

But I'm trying to figure out who ran the company in the 1840's, 50's and 60's. There are advertisements in London papers for Manton center break guns.

Exhibitors at the 1862 London Exposition - Manton showed muzzle loading rifles and "a few breech loaders" (Pinfires no doubt)

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 50
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 50
Referencing the DHL Back book the Mantons 1782-1878 it lists serial number 6324 as a double barrel 17 bore Flintlock originally made in 1817 (p43)

If this is the same gun it is a significant conversion. While the book describes cases of conversion from flintlock to pinfire by Westley Richard’s (p 113, p 121). Further given the details in the book on the gun, I.e. 28 inch barrels, I doubt it is the same gun described.

Unfortunately neither the book or its supplement discusses in detail with pictures flintlock to pinfire conversions.


Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 423
Likes: 73
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 423
Likes: 73
From the shape of the trigger guard bow and the triggers, I would have said conversion of an early percussion gun as a first guess, but without seeing the gun up close, impossible to tell. In any case, a desirable piece, and unusual gauge. I would certainly like to know more.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
Argo44 Online Content OP
Sidelock
**
OP Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
The point is....Someone was making new John Manton guns with a new serial number series in the 1850's and 60's and this does not seem to be covered by the Manton book. There is a hole in gun scholarship here it would seem.

06 July 1862, "Bell's Life"
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 03/22/22 03:04 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.075s Queries: 35 (0.053s) Memory: 0.8477 MB (Peak: 1.8987 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 18:13:35 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS