doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

====== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: FOOTNOTES CONT ======

. . Barrel Blanks:

. . . . .*39i William Fullerd mark:


. . . . .*39j 12543 with Liège proof mark:


. . Initials on Barrels, 1870’s:

. . . . .*39k Barrels with Initials:
. . . . . . . . . .SN 17552 (WJ), 17626 (WJ), 18593 (WJ), 19500(GE), 20249 (BE), 20255 (GE), 20466 (BE), 21361 (CP), 21369 (FR), and 21839 (WE)



. . . . . .*39l 19797 – Barrels contemporaneous to the above with no initials


. . Steel Barrels, 1882:

. . . . .*39m Whitworth advertisement, Jan 1882:


. . . . .*39n The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel:
SN 24365, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun with 31” barrels - top lever, side fences, low hammers, flat file cut rib. It is dated per the chart to 1882.


====== *39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels: END FOOTNOTES ======

Likely a W.C. Scott gun made for O'Reilly the shyster....

============= *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's TEXT ==============

*40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly’s; Reilly Engraving and Marketing Others' Guns:

No Reilly SN-not made by Reilly: In addition to making his own guns, selling used guns, etc. Reilly, thoughout the history of the company marketed guns produced by others but finished and engraved by him. It was a major line of revenue for the company. These guns sported the Reilly name and address, but were not serial-numbered. If gun has no serial number, but has the Reilly name on it, he either 1) obtained the gun “in the white” and finished it or 2) it came to him complete from the manufacturer and he simply engraved and marketed it. He did not claim to have made it.

To differentiate, Reilly’s serial numbered guns were made by him; they include his own guns and guns he made using others’ patents under license such as the previously pictured Terry Patent breech loader, Prince Patent breech Loaders, Nuthall’s Patent, Gen. Jacob’s Patent, etc.

This was not at all unique to Reilly…other gunmakers did the same thing; Cogswell & Harrison had a “retail” branch (they placed a "retailed" insert plate on the guns); Holland & Holland were marketing a Lee-Speed at the turn of the century.

As examples in the first instance, there are the following:
-- A number of classic looking Reilly SxS’s with Birmingham proofs, *40a,
-- Enfields likely marketed to the Yoemanry Militia*40b,
-- Needle-fire Rook Rifles made in an ubiquitous style, market by many gun makers and the time and possibly made by Adams*40c
-- Complex four-barreled high-end muzzle loaders from 1858-59 with London proofs but no Reilly serial number.*40d
-- Later the history of the Reilly-Comblain will be discussed, 6,000 guns with Reilly’s name on it, but not one serial numbered.
-- The same applied in the 1870’s to Reilly Martini-Henry’s and Swinburns.

As for the second instance, during this period Reilly retailed several complete guns. These include:
-- Sharpes Rifles, for which Reilly became a UK distributor. (Sharps had obtained a contract with UK in 1855 for 6,000 guns; They saw action in the mutiny and along the NWFP but were not adopted generally by the army and were phased out after the adoption of the Snider; Sharps along with Prince may have been an early Reilly hope for a large Arsenal contract; he continued to advertise them for 20 years.*40e
-- Winchesters - at least three are still in existence;*40f
-- An Adams Beaumont revolving cylinder carbine from 1855*40g; among many others.
-- As the 60’s and 70’s progressed, he offered ready made guns from other makers (including Westley-Richards) as well in his advertisements.

These non-serial numbered Reilly’s cannot help with the Reilly date chart. Nevertheless examples are provided in order to establish their existence and articulate the concept of Reilly putting guns on the market with his name that he did not claim to make. This may help others in understanding what they are analyzing.

=========== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's END TEXT ============

======= *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's FOOTNOTES ========

*40 Other Reilly-named Long-Guns Marketed but Not Serial-Numbered/Made by The Company:

. . . . .*40a, Examples of a number of NSN classic looking Reilly labeled shotguns and rifles, most but not all with Birmingham proofs,

-- NSN: E.M. Reilly & Co. London on the upper rib. London proof house markings, 12, and a small R.W. stamp. Both locks are expertly hand engraved with scrolls and Reilly & Co. below the breech.


-- NSN: 8 bore Single Hammer pin fire:. (LEFT); Birmingham proofs. 34 1/4-inch round to octagonal three-stage barrel with 3 1/4-inch chamber, about true cylinder boring, the frame, non-rebounding bar lock, hammer and rotary underlever with scroll engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock including 3/4-inch extension, 9lb. 9oz., nitro re-proof S2; - Compared to a serial number Reilly from the same period.


-- NSN: 4 bore, Muzzle loading Hammer gun (TOP PHOTO); Restocked in South Africa (for a left hander?); Top flat is engraved "E. M. Reilly & Co. London". Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. E. M. Reilly & Co. is on front portion of plate. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz. Compared to a serial numbered Reilly (BOTTOM PHOTO):


-- NSN: 12 Bore Sidelock made by Reilly for Oaks & Co., Madras, India:


. . . . .*40b - NSN Enfields: (likely marketed to the Yoemanry Militia):
3 band 1853 Enfield example from c1859 - NSN:


. . . . .*40c - NSN Needle-fire Rook Rifles made in an ubiquitous style, marketed by many gun makers and the time and possibly made by Trantor:


. . . . .*40d - NSN Complex four-barreled high-end muzzle loaders with London proofs but no Reilly serial numbe:.
Gun

Ad – 1858 Book…”Ho to the American West”


. . . . .*40e - NSN Revolving cyliunder carbines, maker unnown (Note the classic 1850's Reilly engraving on the gun and the London proof marks):


======== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW =========

=========== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's FOOTNOTES CONT ============

. . . . .*40f - NRSN Sharpes Rifles, for which Reilly became a UK distributor,


. . . . .*40g - NRSN Winchesters, at least three are still in existance;
02 Oct 1875, Illustrated Sporting News

-- WIN SN 10808. 1876 rifle .50 ex caliber 22 round barrel-buttton magazine, British proofed. Part of an order for 10 guns SN 10803-13, shipped to UK. (Photo is of SN 10810): " In warehouse 10-09-1880, shipped 10-14-1880, order # 21230. s/n 10803 through 10813 were all part of the same order number with same configuration."  

-- WIN SN 110103: 1873 (thrid model) Winchester from 1884, 32.30 WCF, Britich proofs. It was imported to UK by Reilly and marketed by Cogswell & Harrrison in their retail shop.

-- WIN SN 189115 B; Winchester Repeating Arms, New Haven CT on the barrel, inscribed E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford St., London. (no photo)

. . . . .*40h NRSN Beaumont-Adams revolving cylinder carbines: Patent fie-shot double-action percussion revolving rifle retailed by “Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London,” Serial Nr. B.7452, Patent Nr, 25100R,


=========== *40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly's END FOOTNOTES ============

-- WIN SN 110103: 1873 (third model) Winchester from 1884, 32.30 WCF, British proofs. It was imported to UK by Reilly and marketed by Cogswell & Harrison in their retail shop.

As far as I know Reilly was never the agent for Winchester in the UK.Do you have a Winchester Letter that confirms who the rifle was shipped to from the factory for this rifle?

Regards

Alan

I think this shows reilly would sell anything he could get his hands on but it dose not prove he had a 300 man work force ,a 20000??? Gun order

Well mc, if you don't believe the UK 1881 census, or anything you've read here along with all the evidence I've provided and will be providing in future posts, then there's nothing much more I can do for you (except complete the history). I now start to understand the bitter bile that Lang, Reilly and Blanche experienced when they began to market break-action pin-fires. (You do accept that Reilly made pinfires?)

20,000 piece gun order? If you're referring to the Winchester, it was order #21000 for 10 guns (corrected). Reilly did make over 6,000 Reilly-Comblains based on use numbers which will be subject of a future paragraph. This was already posted; The line is very long and research is scattered which is why I'm going back through the whole thing and putting it into chronological order.

Every gunmaker in London was selling whatever they could get their hands on, and was trying their darnedest to get a military contract from Arsenal. Read just about any random 1850's and 1860's gun advertisement.

1859 Lang ad:


Of course, you're welcome to post your research and evidence that Reilly was only a retailer from 1828 to 1912. (Why not a wholesaler at least?). After 5 years of searching, I have yet to find one such reference in the 19th and early 20th century press.

Alan D, I do not. I have only the internet reference which I'll post below. (Ad does not say why the seller believed that Reilly imported it). Welcome corrections (this is the type of substantive addition needed - thanks):

==============================================
Winchester 1873: (Post 1882)
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/819706501

Winchester Model 1873(Third Model) Lever-Action Rifle; 1884, New Haven, CT, USA Production/Cogswell & Harrison, London, England Retailed & Modified; Caliber: .32-20 WCF; Barrel: 20" Round; Stock: Plain Straight Grip Walnut, Crescent Buttplate; S/N: 110103
Early 3rd Model Winchester 1873 Rifle in carbine configuration with British proofs and Cogswell & Harrison retailer marking...this beautiful little rifle was manufactured at the New Haven factory in 1884 for retail on the British commercial market. Likely imported by Reilly, the gun was tested and proofed at the London House and retailed through the prestigious Cogswell & Harrison storefront. Manufactured during the first few weeks of 1884, the gun is among the earliest examples of a '73 chambered in this caliber, with .32-20 being first offered in 1882, and this short rifle may have been a dealer sample slated for the C&H showroom floor. The features are in line with a full-sized rifle, while the receiver has the extra step only seen on the small-bore '73s. Unusual features include an oddly-shaped, nitre blue front sight paired with a ladder rear sight from a Model 1876, which may have been special order features from the factory, or possibly added by the merchant for a client. Additional modifications include the addition of a Cogswell & Harrison retailer medallion in the stock, as well as the barrel, which measures 20" in length. No saddle ring is present, it appears that no end barrel band has ever been fitted, and the crown remains in-the-white. A beautifully preserved example of a British-shipped, modified & retailed American classic, the rifle displays little sign of actual use, and was likely acquired by the original owner to supplement a battery of other arms-possibly one including the large-bore 1876 Express Rifle that supplied this rifle's rear sight. In fine condition, this early .32 '73 with British proofs and desirable Cogswell & Harrison retailer medallion represents a sound investment that would be a unique addition to any advanced collection.

======================================

The point of this post was to demonstrate that Reilly marketed complete long guns adding his name to that of the maker, much like he did pistols.
-- So when he advertises a Westley-Richards by name, I'm assuming he's selling a gun actually made by Westley-Richards with the Reilly name added as the retailer.
-- However, if he built a Westley-Richards under license and serial numbered the gun, it would be a 'Reilly" with a Westley-Richard patent use number on it.
There are no Reilly serial-numbered Winchesters, Sharpes, Martini-Henry's, Swinburnes, or revolvers S&Ws, Colts, Trantor, Adams,' etc. (The Martini-Henry story is interesting and is subject of a future chapter).

=============== *41 Reilly and Pistols TEXT ===============

*41 Reilly and Pistols

Reilly always retailed pistols of all types from the beginning of the firm to the end. He engraved them and put his name on them. However, after 1837 he did not serial number them although Reilly was still listed as “gun and pistol makers” in business anthologies as previously noted in chapter 6.

By 1859 he was selling all types of pistols and revolvers, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Smith&Wesson;*41a He sold Howdah's, pepperboxes, duelers, derringers, Flobert, etc.*41b Some of these are extremely well made.*41c Some are highly engraved such as a gold-washed Trantor revolver that certainly did not leave the Trantor factory like that.*41d But, because he did not serial number these guns, he did not build them.

There are accounts of people buying a Reilly revolver, walking out of the shop and committing suicide on the sidewalk. An Irish terrorist purchased a Reilly revolver in 1898 meaning harm and was arrested; It is interesting that the Reilly shop foreman at the time James Curtis suddenly couldn't identify the man who bought it (Reilly's were Irish of course).

Reilly apparently did assemble foreign made revolvers from parts imported from Liège possibly as early as 1860. But Reilly did not serial number assembled guns - witness the Martini-Henry Reilly rifles (see below). Thus pistols are ignored in this study; they cannot be used to date Reilly long-guns except for those with surviving cases with original trade labels, which helped build a data-base of Reilly case labels.

Note: A Reilly pepperbox may have been weilded by "Flashman" in the novel Flashman and the Mountain of Light, by George MacDonald Fraser.*41e

Note2: An 1890's "Vampire Kit" exists with cross, hammer and wooden spikes, vials for holy water, bible, mirror (for checking if the suspected Vampire has a reflection), various holy relics etc. with two Reilly, 316 High Holborn pocket pistols firing silver bullets. Whether Reilly marketed the kit is questionable (Vampire stories originated in the 1890's).*41f

============= *41 Reilly and Pistols END TEXT =============