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Joined: May 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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I have a Model 500 Webley and Scott. Very nice gun. Pictured in Crawfords book. VERY few Model 500s made. Fancy wood, wonderful engraving and disc set strikers. I’m curious if anyone else here has a 500.


The only constant in life is change.
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Sidelock

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A couple discussion threads that I found relating to the Webley & Scott 400, 500 and 700 series shotguns.

Doublegun bbs Webley & Scott 500 series

Pigeon Watch Webley & Scott 500 series

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I own a single gun, a lowly Spanish boxlock, that is equipped with disc set strikers. When I got the gun, it didn’t have the tool to remove them, or a set of spare strikers. Cole Haugh did some service work to the gun, and supplied strikers and the tool. The discs are a piece of cake to remove from the gun. I can change both strikers out, and have the gun running again in 10 minutes, sitting in the cab of the truck, in the dark. I have pulled both discs out, and can’t understand why any maker would fit them so poorly you destroyed them taking them out. I have witnessed, in an old English boxlock, a case of the tumbler coming to rest on the protruding edge of a disc, that resulted in the edge of the disc getting beat over the threads in the face of the breech. This was just sloppy design, poor workmanship, or, both. I don’t expect it is typical. Maybe I’m wrong, and that is typical, but, when the idea is properly executed, it is a good one. If I had to fight that hard to get them out, I’d be pissed. No reason for that. Complaining that you have to have a tool and spare strikers to put the idea to use is like complaining you have to have keys to start a truck. Get real.
98% of English boxlocks might have integral strikers, but, 100% of them are single shots when one breaks. Most of those English boxlocks have a couple lifetimes of use on them, by now, and, some are going to break. Seen that movie, along with the single trigger movie. You guys can watch it.
Listening to a gunsmith tell me how much he would prefer to fix integral strikers is a funny joke when I can fix my own disc set strikers in a minute, without his help or cost, thank you very much.
Carry on.

Best,
Ted

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Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I own a single gun, a lowly Spanish boxlock, that is equipped with disc set strikers. When I got the gun, it didn’t have the tool to remove them, or a set of spare strikers. Cole Haugh did some service work to the gun, and supplied strikers and the tool. The discs are a piece of cake to remove from the gun. I can change both strikers out, and have the gun running again in 10 minutes, sitting in the cab of the truck, in the dark. I have pulled both discs out, and can’t understand why any maker would fit them so poorly you destroyed them taking them out. I have witnessed, in an old English boxlock, a case of the tumbler coming to rest on the protruding edge of a disc, that resulted in the edge of the disc getting beat over the threads in the face of the breech. This was just sloppy design, poor workmanship, or, both. I don’t expect it is typical. Maybe I’m wrong, and that is typical, but, when the idea is properly executed, it is a good one. If I had to fight that hard to get them out, I’d be pissed. No reason for that. Complaining that you have to have a tool and spare strikers to put the idea to use is like complaining you have to have keys to start a truck. Get real.
98% of English boxlocks might have integral strikers, but, 100% of them are single shots when one breaks. Most of those English boxlocks have a couple lifetimes of use on them, by now, and, some are going to break. Seen that movie, along with the single trigger movie. You guys can watch it.
Listening to a gunsmith tell me how much he would prefer to fix integral strikers is a funny joke when I can fix my own disc set strikers in a minute, without his help or cost, thank you very much.
Carry on.

Best,
Ted

Funny indeed. I'm sure the new strikers and tool to remove them them were free? Something you could do yourself?


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Sidelock
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Thanks Tim. I am familiar with the 2 articles. And no, I don’t plan to mess with the strikers.


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Originally Posted by SKB
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I own a single gun, a lowly Spanish boxlock, that is equipped with disc set strikers. When I got the gun, it didn’t have the tool to remove them, or a set of spare strikers. Cole Haugh did some service work to the gun, and supplied strikers and the tool. The discs are a piece of cake to remove from the gun. I can change both strikers out, and have the gun running again in 10 minutes, sitting in the cab of the truck, in the dark. I have pulled both discs out, and can’t understand why any maker would fit them so poorly you destroyed them taking them out. I have witnessed, in an old English boxlock, a case of the tumbler coming to rest on the protruding edge of a disc, that resulted in the edge of the disc getting beat over the threads in the face of the breech. This was just sloppy design, poor workmanship, or, both. I don’t expect it is typical. Maybe I’m wrong, and that is typical, but, when the idea is properly executed, it is a good one. If I had to fight that hard to get them out, I’d be pissed. No reason for that. Complaining that you have to have a tool and spare strikers to put the idea to use is like complaining you have to have keys to start a truck. Get real.
98% of English boxlocks might have integral strikers, but, 100% of them are single shots when one breaks. Most of those English boxlocks have a couple lifetimes of use on them, by now, and, some are going to break. Seen that movie, along with the single trigger movie. You guys can watch it.
Listening to a gunsmith tell me how much he would prefer to fix integral strikers is a funny joke when I can fix my own disc set strikers in a minute, without his help or cost, thank you very much.
Carry on.

Best,
Ted

Funny indeed. I'm sure the new strikers and tool to remove them them were free? Something you could do yourself?

I could have built the tool and the strikers myself. Would have had to pester a friend for the use of his lathe. But, Cole had them on the shelf, and, they were reasonable. I might feel differently if the discs in the gun were poorly fitted enough to make it challenging to get them out, but, that isn’t the case.

Best,
Ted

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Ted,
The guns were talking about are British guns, some of them dating back to the early 1900’s. Yes, there is several very good reasons for difficult to remove disk……The disk have been in the breech face for literally thousands of rounds….some of them corrosive primers and black powder… and then factor in the weather, time, maintenance practice, etc…and now you have disk that will not budge. I highly doubt you’re ugartechea has seen any where near that amount of use or abuse in its relatively short lifespan. Fitted poorly? In fact they were fitted so well that any amount of corrosion will end up locking them up for practically an eternity.
That’s awesome that your Ugartechea disc come out so well. From our past discussions on the gun…it sounds like it’s a very lightly used specimen. You’re lucky. My model 30’s disk used to like to come loose all on their own.😳.

Get real? C’mon. Take a poll on how many people actually have spare, fitted strikers and a proper, well fitted tool to go along with their guns with disk set strikers (for any makers guns) or for that matter…a new set of fitted mainsprings or top lever springs to slap into the gun just in case. Doubt many people at all have everything ready to go like you do. Most guys into this hobby just bring along a back up gun in case something goes wrong.
In my time dealing with British guns….I’ve NEVER needed to replace a striker in the field or at home. I did have a 130 year old mainspring shit the bed during a hunting trip. That’s it. I didn’t have a spare with me. It got fixed later. Gun got cased, I grabbed another gun and the hunting continued. That’s getting real.

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Sidelock
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muchatrucha, it sounds like you have a very nice, rare Webley & Scott shotgun, Enjoy. And I don’t plan to mess with any disc-strikers either.

Ted, you are very lucky to have access to a Gunsmith like Cole Haugh, which I don’t. Where I live, it’s hard enough just finding 2 1/2” ammunition to shoot in my vintage guns, let alone a good qualified gunsmith to work on them. However, from the feedback received so far, I still think I would buy a Webley & Scott, 400 series shotgun with the disc-set strikers.

Here is a best Webley & Scott shotgun that is coming up for auction at Holts this month. A London branded Webley & Scott boxlock. Anyone know what model this one would be?

Holts Webley & Scott London

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That’s a Scott Reliance made from 1900 to 1935. Notable characteristics are the reinforced bolsters on side of action, side clips, and Greener type cross bolt*. Very nice guns and the one you mentioned seems to be of the very highest grade. Very unusual fancy back action.

*information from “The History of W. & C. Scott Gunmakers” by Crawford and Whatley

Last edited by Joe Wood; 03/08/22 11:15 PM.

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1 member likes this: Tim Cartmell
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Dustin,
I’ve never replaced a striker, either. But, I had a spare for the BSS, and I’ve got ‘em for the Uggy. If the design allows for making a repair easier, why wouldn’t you take the few extra steps to line up the tools and parts, put ‘em in the case, and check to see if the discs could be removed before you had to find that out? Probably explains why the 700 came with a less serviceable design, people maybe didn’t do it anyway. ‘Kinda like the new automatic transmissions, that have no provision for maintenance, and get new fluid and filter, at rebuild.
Tim, there are GREAT gunsmiths who live in Canada. I’m not up on who is working and who isn’t, but, Canvasback, a poster who is here regularly, can put you onto some of the best. You wouldn’t regret either gun, but, whoever described the 700 as more “workmanlike” nailed it. They built a lot of them, the 400 not so much. I have but one 2 1/2” gun, a 12, and if ammunition is tough to find, I slip some of the lighter AA loads in it, 1 Oz or 1 1/8th Oz, the 1150fps loads, and don’t worry too much about it.
Good luck.

Best,
Ted

1 member likes this: Tim Cartmell
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