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Well spotted , Daryl!

The Cogswell and Harrison is, apart from the presence of ejectors and a slightly more typical shaping of the front of the Westley Richards style top lever, a near twin to mine.

I wish mine still had Damascus barrels, but then if it had it would no doubt have cost me more than £55.

I see that the gun you mention is marked C & H on the tubes where the barrel maker’s stamps would appear. Cogswell and Harrison were manufacturers, and unusually for London makers built boxlocks in house.

It seems likely that this was one of their own making.

It is very close in date to mine, and raises a moderately strong possibility that they built mine for E. M. Reilly.

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E. M. REILLY!
E. M. REILLY!
E. M. REILLY!
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
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The Cogswell & Harrison pictured by Daryl has a faint "Not for Ball" stamp...and looks to have been originally proofed in London. This would make it 1887 or earlier. (This is not hard and fast... Terry Lubzinski’s side lever 12 bore Reilly has a serial number 303XX - 1889 - but with "Not for Ball.")

Parabola's camelopard is definitively 1889 per the serial number. Close but not so close that a definitive conclusion can be reached.


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Originally Posted by John Roberts
E. M. REILLY!
E. M. REILLY!
E. M. REILLY!
JR
Hello, could you please clarify? Regards


NA
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Gene,

30227 also has a NOT FOR BALl stamp in the same place as the gun Daryl spotted. If you look at the top picture in this thread you will see ALL the rest being obscured by the front lump.

It also bears that CHOKE mark in a similar location. Unfortunately where the C&H mark appears on Daryl’s example the area has clearly been struck down in the course of re-sleeving.

A definite answer might lie in Cogswell and Harrison’s records (IF they kept a record of guns made by them for the trade). Edwinson Green built guns for London Sporting Park and recorded the London Sporting Park serial numbers he applied.

We will probably never know for certain, but the similarities in building have moved Cogswell and Harrison close to the top of my list of suspects.

Now, has anyone any ideas about the marking:-
G M PAT
S. 13
on the action flat on my Reilly

Last edited by Parabola; 03/04/22 06:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mr W martin
Originally Posted by John Roberts
E. M. REILLY!
E. M. REILLY!
E. M. REILLY!
JR
Hello, could you please clarify? Regards

Gladly. Heavy on sarcasm. After 80 pages of E. M. Reilly talk that began in 2016, with over 1.3 million views and almost 800 replies, I'm not sure why an additional thread is needed to discuss more of the same, save the fact it's another example for, more of the same, if you get my drift.

Not judging, just saying...
JR

Last edited by John Roberts; 03/04/22 06:56 PM.

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God bless America, long live the Republic.
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I think this adds to the idea that the English gun trade was an incestuous lot.

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John, We are addressing Parabola's Reilly. I happen to know a good bit about Reilly so have tried to help.

Re your ungracious comment about the Reilly line, here's the background: I started out just to date the Reilly guns. I found bad history and decided to correct it. I have been continually challenged and accused among other things of "cherry picking" data. So the history is being rewritten with footnotes paragraph by paragraph so that those who hadn't read through all the research could see where the concepts originated. If it doesn't interest you, don't read it.

Now I'd like to address two points which came up on this line.
1) That "Greener might have made the gun and Reilly was merely a retailer." or
2) that Cogswell & Harrison made it (and presumably Reilly retailed it).
My point is this; if Greener could make it, Reilly certainly could and the fact that Reilly is not even being considered as the source of this W-R shows how ingrained non-historical based, oral-legend is within a very conservative fraternity.

I'm not going to fall on my sword to say that after 1880 Reilly didn't finish others' guns. He was above all a businessman and if he decided he couldn't fight Birmingham anymore, he'd join them and make money. But in 1881 he had twice the number of workers as Greener and could make anything Greener could.

Just for information, here are three Reilly Westley-Richards from around the 1889 time period. I've got the information on the various patent use numbers on these guns....they've been posted before and will be again when I finally get up to 1890 in the re-write:

30363 - dated 1889; #1 of a pair. From an internet article:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
30364 - dated 1889; #2 of a pair. From and Indian gun board - Norwegian gun; Serial number was matched based on patent use numbers compared with the above gun:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
33242 - dated 1893; #2 of pair
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

If it would help Parabola, I will post the details on these guns.

Last edited by Argo44; 03/04/22 08:37 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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If it sounded ungracious, my apologies. Just thought Parabola could have added it to the existing discussion. I admire your extensive knowledge and research, Argo. Peace.
JR


Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
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Thanks John....no blood no foul. At this point with me basically writing my book on the Reilly line...or rather re-writing it and adding a lot more stuff....if someone has questions about a specific Reilly gun, it might be more productive to have a separate line....especially this one which is quite unique.

As I go through Reilly history paragraph by paragraph though, if some historian wants to challenge an interpretation, please do so.

Gene Williams


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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