doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Holland and Holland scope base info needed

Hi all, I am doing some research for a friend of mine who has just recently picked up a beautiful H and H double rifle manufactured in 1907.
It is a royal deluxe in 375 flanged, single trigger.
It was originally scoped from the factory, unfortunately over the years the scope and rings has disappeared, now we are trying to get some information.

Can anyone help identify what type of set up these bases are intended for...?

What type of rings would have accompanied them...?

and perhaps what type of scope would have been used in 1907 for this grade of firearm.....?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[img][img]https://i.ibb.co/80n5YRq/greg-s-h-and-h-scope-bases-pic.jpg[/img][/img]

That is the early version of Holland's proprietary scope mount system, they rings and bases both manufactured by H&H. The scope would have been a Skopar Voitlander. I built the bases for this rifle to fit the H&H rings.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xcSbnwRl.jpg?1[/img]

You will need rings built to match those bases, a very costly endeavor. Try Lee as he will be your best bet.

http://learmsllc.com/claw-mounts-scope-mounts-and-swing-mounts/

Call J. J. Peradeau in Oklahoma on Monday, be prepared to send him pics of the bases on the rifle....... "Scoped from the factory" seems a bit of a long reach to me, for a 1907 gun.....Might have been returned to H&H for mounts at a later date , or could have been scoped with a variety of mounts by numerous makers, a lot of them German in origin.

I'm 100% sure those are H&H mounts, I have seen many examples of them, this is the first version having the two posts on the forward base.

Many British makers were using scopes well before 1907, see the many Fraser rifles scoped in the late 1800's.

The scopes themselves were almost always German in origin.

Tigertrout;

Is your friends Holland still chambered for the H&H .375 flanged 2 1/2 inch cartridge or has it been re-proofed and re-chambered for the H&H .375 flanged magnum cartridge?

tigertrout and skb, here are the pictures
Mike

Big money for a scope and rings

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185205804137?hash=item2b1f204c69:g:h3MAAOSwkX9hDwfm
COPY AND PASTE ABOVE LINK

To mel5141, The factory records show that it was scoped at the factory and sighted in with the scope, so not a stretch.
bushveld, the rifle went back and was re-chambered to flanged magnum and re-proofed.

I wish I could see how they mate the bases and rings........

Holland and Holland has quoted a tremendous amount of money to make new rings.

Tigertrout: Try Le LeBass, he will be costly but nothing like H&H.

Skeetex: Thanks for fixing my link. Mine is an H&H marked scope which I traded for. The above linked Skopar is over priced, they can be had for much less.

Tigertrout;

I suspected that your friends lovely H&H DR was re-chambered as many of the original H&H .375 Flanged Nitro Express 2 1/2" rifles were after the H&H .375 Flanged Magnum was introduced about 1912.

I assume that your reference above to the records of H&H showing the DR being scoped at factory was the original 1907 configuration as a .375 2 1/2" Flg. NE.

After it was re-chambered and re-proofed to H&H .375 Flg.Mag, do the H&H records show that it was then re-regulated to group shots with the scope mounted upon the barrels? If not, and in my experience in building and regulating DR barrels of .375 range calibers if your friend mounts a scope on the barrels he needs to expect to have the barrels regulated (de-soldered, new Holland type front barrel brace made[if it has the H&H type] to spread or converge the barrels, re-soldered and re-blacked), Further even if the DR was re-regulated at Holland's after re-chambering/re-proofing with a scope mounted. and your friend now attaches another scope and rings the scope/rings are unlikely to have the weight and mass distribution of the previous scope/rings to where the barrels will now group.

If you are not familiar with regulating DR barrels here is a link for you: https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-barrel-regulator

The significant difference between the H&H double rifle regulation and the description of the process from this "vintageguns.co" link is that after the completion of the regulating at the range, the DR goes back to the workshop to have a new front barrel brace machined/made via a milling machine to the exact distance in thousands of an inch between the front barrels and the exact diameter of the front barrels made and then fitted/soldered to the barrels---this brace incorporates the front sight ramp.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell