doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com RST status?

No idea when they will be back in production, but I expect at first that sales will be to vendors/people who buy by the pallet. (And they probably have contracts with these that pre-date Covid)

Cheddite primers are starting to show up and at prices lower than American makers. Last I saw was $48/thousand with a 5000 primer limit plus hazmat from BPI. Primed Cheddite hulls are also available. Some powders are available. The biggest problem right now if one was going to get into shotgun reloading is probably bird shot.

A Lee Load All press, a roll crimper attachment that goes into a drill press or drill and a hull trimmer I can buy 2 3/4 hulls, cut them down to 2 1/2" and once that is done I can make 2-3 boxes an hour. That's maybe $150 of equipment.

Some years ago, a shooter from a country in which reloading supplies were unavailable and/or prohibited posted his method for firing 2 3/4" shells in a 16-gauge short-chambered Browning auto. As you probably know, such a gun will fire a 2 3/4" shell but the ejection port is too short for proper ejection. He put the unfired factory shell in a drill press and used a small hole saw to make a circular weak spot in the end of the cartridge. Upon firing, the plastic circle went downrange like an overshot wad and the shortened empty ejected cleanly.

This subject of shooting 2 3/4” hulls in 2 1/2” chambers is a recurring question on this board. But perhaps it’s not bad to revisit it every once in a while. As mentioned above pressure tests shooting the longer hulls in short chambered guns did not raise pressures significantly, only 500 to 1,000 psi. That’s normally not a significant amount of pressure. And long ago, when American makers still cut chambers 2 5/8” they recommended using 2 3/4” shells. They wanted to hull to open part way into the forcing cone, believing the longer hull would provide a better gas seal than the shorter. Most of my doubles are damascus barreled with short chambers and I only shoot 2 3/4” in all of them. Never a problem. If my 2 3/4” hull mouths are not frayed after firing I am comfortable that the hull mouth remained in the forcing cone and is safe.

However, one word of extreme caution: regardless of hull length be sure the pressures, velocities, and payloads are within the design limits the gun was made for.

Thanks Joe. I have a 12 gauge 30" Damascus barreled Reilly that has good metal, but I was a little loath to try the longer shells in it. My Saint-Etienne 12 gauge with 2 5/8" chambers has steel barrels, probably from the late 1920's and should be ok. It's 8 ounces heavier than the Damascus as well. I'll give both a try....carefully.

I'm putting a modern gun (Iside 16) on special order this week, partly so I can shoot my stash of modern ammo and not have to worry about 2.5" shells for my Husky hammer gun and my Lefever 12. Good to have options. That said, once I find some universal, I'll be able to reload enough shorties to keep me going for quite a while. My local big box said they had some a couple weeks ago, and to keep checking back weekly. If the pandemic eases up, this should alleviate itself come spring time I should think.

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=400821

Thinking of: 12 gauge 2 3/4" Winchester AA extra lite shell, 1145 fps, 1 oz, 7 1/2 shot. If they can be found,
But reading the comments in the above line, Federal hulls produce dramatically lower pressure than Winchester.

I'll repost Dr. Drew's chart with the black splotches eliminated:

Many thanks to Bill Johnson for scanning and sending "Long Shells in Short Chambers", Sherman Bell with technical assistance from Tom Armbrust in "Finding Out for Myself", Part V, Double Gun Journal, Winter 2001

The test barrel was a "heavy" Krieger barrel with piezo-electric transducer at 1" from the breech and an Oehler velocity gauge 2 5/16" from the breech.
Tests were performed:
1. 2 1/2" chamber with a 7/16" forcing cone - "British chamber" (BC)
2. 2 1/2" chamber with a 1 1/4" forcing cone - "Modified British chamber" (MBC)
3. 2 3/4" chamber with a 1" forcing cone - "American Chamber" (AC)
Each load was tested in each chamber at least 5 times.
No significant change in velocity was noted between the 3 test chambers
It was not unusual to have 300-600 psi spread between shots

LOADS
1. 7/8 oz. in Federal plastic hull at 1185 fps in the 2 3/4" chamber
2. 7/8 oz. in Estate plastic hull at 1206 fps
3. 1 oz. in Federal paper hull at 1137 fps
4. 1 1/8 oz. in Federal paper hull at 1120 fps
5. 1 oz. in Remington plastic hull at 1205 fps
6. 1 1/8 oz. in Winchester plastic hull at 1186 fps
7. 1 1/4 oz. in Federal plastic hull at 1091 fps
8. 1 1/4 oz. in Winchester plastic hull at 1136 fps
9. 1 1/8 oz. with GOEX FFFg in Federal paper at 1184 fps
10. 1 1/8 oz. Bismuth in Federal plastic at 1091 fps
I only include the standard target or game loads that were tested

��..BC--...MBC-....AC-..Difference BC vs AC
1)..5725--...5905-..4834--..891 psi
2)..6225--...6065-..5009--..1216 psi
3)..5865--...5325-..5263--..602 psi-.."long cones do reduce pressure"
4)..5845--...5665-..5058--..787 psi
5)..7805--...7845-..7577--..228 psi
6).11,125-.11,045-10,787-..338 psi
7)..6892--...6805-..5953--..939 psi
8)..8765--...8545-..7870--..895 psi
9)..5405--...5265-..4603--..802 psi
10).6765--...6365-..6380--..385 psi

Interpretation and caution:
1. Results in light British 12b or American small bore barrels may be different.
2. Results in YOUR barrel would require drilling the chamber for the transducer thereby destroying your gun.
3. Paper hulls with star crimps showed little difference compared to plastic hulls. NO roll crimp paper hulls were tested.
4. The increase in pressure comparing 1 oz., 1 1/8 oz., and 1 1/4 oz. loads was similar.
5. Longer cones MAY reduce pressure. This was NOT a comparison of standard 1" with 2 1/2" cones however.
6. "Shooting 2 3/4" shells in 2 1/2" chambers does make them produce more pressure-but in most cases it is less than a 1000 psi increase. I see no reason, related to safety, to modify an original 2 1/2" chambered gun to shoot 2 3/4" shells, if the 2 3/4" load you intend to use would develop pressure that is safe in that gun, when fired in a standard chamber!"
7. "We found that lengthening the forcing cone in a 2 1/2" chamber usually helps mitigate the pressure increase that comes from shooting 2 3/4" or 3" shells in the short chamber."
8. "Shooting heavy 2 3/4" loads in a light gun is a dumb thing to do. Shooting 3" magnum duck loads is even dumber."
9. This is not a study of the effect on RECOIL of shooting long shells in short chambers. Vintage 20g doubles may have chambers shorter than 2 1/2", and it has been my experience that recoil is markedly increased if 2 3/4" shells are used.

And this from Larry Brown in the same line:
One reason is the Winchester hull. Several of the other loads use Federal hulls, which give lower pressures. In the case of load #8, which also uses an AA hull, Bell compares it to a load in a Federal hull. The Winchester load produces almost 2,000 psi higher pressure at the breech, with 2 1/2 grains less powder. You can get lower pressure reloads with Winchester hulls, but you have to be selective when it comes to your choices of powder, wad, and primer.

RST main bottle neck apparently is lack of powder. Until that changes I do not think we will be seeing many shells. And I wonder what quantity they need? Is it a hundred pounds or several hundred pounds of multiple different powders.

I have been using the Kent Elite Low Recoil/Training loads for a few years now and think they are fantastic. The 3/4 oz. is in a true 2.5" case.
I've gone through around 20 cases and I have had no troubles breaking targets at any range I care to shoot at. I use them in all my vintage guns without hesitation.
RST isn't the only game in town.

https://kentcartridge.com/us/shotshell/elite-low-recoil-training

I've been using them as well and quite like both the performance and the price.

I can't find any of the Kent's