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It’s an old school term referring to the breech or fences of a break action gun.

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Nowadays in Central Europe "Karpatenbüchse" seems to be another, romantic or nostalgic - and commercial - name for a Kipplauf SS rifle, usually a short Stutzen, such as Merkel's K4: https://www.jagdzeit.de/artikel/deutschland-k4-merkels-karpatenbuchse-ausgabe-39

But in my mind, and in prewar catalogs such as Gebrüder Merkel if I remember correctly the meaning is a light moutain rifle with a rather longish barrel and 3/4 stock (inbetween halfstock and fullstock).

With kind regards
Jani

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Prewar Karpathenbüchse: https://www.abebooks.com/first-edit...ikel/21360137534/bd#&gid=1&pid=5

With kind regards,
Jani

P.S.:-büchse = rifle

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Many thanks Jani for looking @ this & your precise input.

Serbus Jani.


lep pozdrav,


Raimey
rse

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You are very welcome, Raimey.

Serbus & Lep pozdrav,

Jani

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Argo44 Online Content OP
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"Ask and you shall receive." Thanks all.

Last edited by Argo44; 11/28/21 07:52 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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As I'm compiling a bit more data, here is a reminder of what this sort of research can accomplish:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596554&page=1

I'll repost the key part of the above which is apt:

Quote:
"I'd just like to add a plug for scholarship.

"It's so easy now to say about Reilly that this label was from this period; this gun is dated this year; etc. When I bought 34723 in Nov 2015 there was nothing on Reilly except bits and pieces of urban legend, often contradictory and often contentious. It took over 3,000 hours of research to rehabilitate Reilly and to recreate the history of the Company, date the guns and date the trade labels. It was fun; I enjoyed that sort of thing and was often in the middle of no-where with not a lot else to do.

"However, the fact that 26584 in North Hertfordshire found its case in Virginia is directly related to that Reilly research. Donald Dallas recognized this. Others should do likewise for their favorite guns which have no records."

And Merry Christmas to all...hoping you have a full double-stocking.

Last edited by Argo44; 01/26/22 01:33 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Hi Gene, First let me wish you a happy new year!
I found this entry in a Weller & Dufty catalogue for July 1984........"The stock, action & forend of a 12 bore top lever hammerless boxlock double barrelled shotgun by E. M. REILLY & CO. 277 OXFORD STREET LONDON Serial No. 33774. Barrels available."

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==================== An academic review of this history ======================

I realize that gradually the history of Reilly as written 3 years ago has changed from a readable story to an academic defense of the conclusions. That won't fly as prose and anything published will revert to the original story-telling format.

But, there is still the academic debate to be handled here where the line was created, argued and honed. So, here's what is going to be done over the next few months.

I have broken the history up into 95 short paragraphs. I've footnoted each paragraph-each sentence or assertion. The photographs of the documents and evidence supporting each footnote will be published for each paragraph. I tried to figure a way to put thumbs but that's impossible on this site so a lot of the photos are repeats...but this time in chronological order. This is going to be redundant and going over old material. But In this way, if anyone objects to a conclusion, it can be debated directly once again. Because I'm reposting hundreds of photographs it will also require about 100 posts over the next few months and will certainly repeat material already posted over 5 years above.

In any event this will be a chronological trip through both Reilly history and the history of the gun, the UK and France and in some ways Europe in the 19th century. If it doesn't work, please say it early on so I can just let it lay as is or don't read it. Thanks. Gene

Note: The footnotes are representative - but are only a small fraction of the data and documents compiled.

Last edited by Argo44; 09/19/23 10:01 PM.

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============== *1 - Beginnings TEXT ===================

Introduction

The Reilly firm of gun makers in London has long been viewed as enigmatic. Confusion exists on the location of the company, its products, and even whether it actually made guns or was just a retailer. Reilly's records were lost after bankruptcy (1912) and the final shutting down of the firm (1918). This new history should resolve these mysteries and re-establish Reilly as at one time perhaps one of if not the largest of gun makers in London during the mid-1800's.

*1 Beginnings

Joseph Charles Reilly was born in Ireland in 1786. He hailed from a well-to-do family and his family aspired for him to become a lawyer. In the mid-1800's he went to London to study - Irish Catholics could not study law in Ireland at the time. However, he had an independent streak. Instead of law school, he struck out on his own into various technical fields. (He was obviously supported by his family money in all this - he was never a "destitute student.")

He married in 1812. *1a In 1814 he opened a jewelry shop, later described as also dealing in silver-plate, *1b at 12 Middle Row, Holborn, *1c located hard by Gray’s Inn of the "Inns of the Court." He registered a silver mark "JCR" in July 1818. *1d His clientele included country gentlemen and barristers.

Note: to register a silver/gold mark required a considerable apprenticeship and noted expertise. John Campbell in his article in "Double Gun Journal," Summer 2015 also wrote that Reilly was a member of the clock-makers' guild, something also requiring quite an apprenticeship; he allegedly retained his membership in this guild until the late 1820's.

In 1817 his son Edward Michael was born, the third of four children.*1e He prospered, buying a country estate in Bedfordshire in 1824.

Jewelry shops in London at the time often dealt in guns, engraving and re-selling them, perhaps because of the influence of the artistic professionalism of Joseph Manton's guns at the time. *1f Some such shops called themselves "Whitesmiths." *1g

Note: Among the extant JC Reilly "jewelry" from this time period are miniature working gun models with Damascus barrels. *1h Yet, he did indeed deal in jewelry: a list of stolen goods from the Reilly shop in January 1831 included, rings, necklaces, bracelets, etc. - normal stuff for the métier. *1i

========== *1 - Beginnings END TEXT =============

========== *1 - Beginnings FOOTNOTES/DOCUMENTATION ===========

*1 Beginnings

. . . . .*1a. Marriage certificate: Joseph Charles Reilly and Martha:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1b April 1817 – “Johnsons London Commercial Guide” – Reilly goldsmith and jeweler
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1c. 12 Middle Row, Holborn Bars: Comment: Observers from the early 1820's noted that Reilly's jewelry shop was "spacious" and "accorded all opportunity for running a large business." It was obviously sufficient (from maps and sketches) for jewelers. Could guns have been made there? That depends on how many rooms above the shop he occupied - guns were built in spaces the size of a bathroom. Yet J.C. Reilly also accumulated properties in Holborn per his will and it could well have been that he had a workshop at another location.
Sketches:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Map of location of 12 Middle Row – Sally’s Reilly page on Ancestry.com
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1d. JCR silvermark: Grimwade – “London Goldsmiths; 1867-1937 – Their Marks and Lives… ”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1e. Reilly children; per Sally’s Ancestry.com page and per the will of J.C. Reilly:
-- Ann Reilly, born 7 March 1813, Holborn, Middlesex, England
-- Ellen Reilly, born 30 March 1815, Holborn, Middlesex, England
-- Edward Michael Reilly, born 01 September 1817, England
-- Charles Joseph Reilly, born 04 July 1819, England.

. . . . .*1f. 07 April 1826 "Morning Advertiser" on the bankruptcy of Joseph Manton.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*1g. “Whitesmith”:
1851 Census. 1851 census record for John Blissett. Note he called himself a "Whitesmith."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

============ *1- Beginnings FOOTNOTES CONT. BELOW ===========

Last edited by Argo44; 06/04/22 10:47 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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