doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Did London make boxlock rifles & guns?

The figure of 300 employees for Reilly in 1881 seems a very high figure especially in relation to 140 for WW Greener. I cant help but wonder if there is some puffery in this self reported figure. If he really did employee 300 workers he would have had to have made thousands of guns a year to cover this overhead. Perhaps he had other manufacturing business and lumped all his employees under one banner for some reason?

If we take the figure of 300 as correct the evidence of the output will be found in the day proof ledgers of Worshipful Company of Gunmakers proof house. These ledgers and archive of the London proof house can be viewed in the Guildhall Library in Central London. I have spent a many days there myself looking at the period from 1914 to 1945. If Reilly made guns in London the evidence will be in these day books. If Reilly did not make guns there will not be any entries under his name.

Regards

Alan

Alan, many thanks for your always substantive comments.

I've confirmed with the Worshipful Company that neither E.M. nor J.C. were members. This is not a deal breaker - there are prominent gun-makers who were not members. But, if someone can verify what was being proofed at that time....just pick a month - heck a week....I'd be grateful. I can provide a name and an email to the historian at the Company - he owns a Reilly pair.

A look at the Reilly dating chart will show that at least for serial numbered guns, the increase in production in the early 1880's is indisputable. The footnotes prove it.

But identifying that Reilly proofed say 100 guns in "August 1882" or say " 20 guns from Aug 01 - Aug 08, 1882, will not satisfy the question..."Who built the actions?" And in addition Reilly quite possibly was building a lot more guns for the trade at the time. And he was sending literally dozens of pistols to be proofed at the time.

Gun writers have wrapped themselves around the axle about the 1881 census... But Occam's Razor requires the simplest solution... Reilly spoke the truth. If you would read the Reilly line the number of business offshoots he was involved in with three separate workshops and stores plus the decision to upgrade production at that time, combined with the known cyclical employment in the industry, make his declaration credible. This is detailed in the Reilly history...

And this is not about Reilly though that is my interest. Below posted is the essential question - no one has answered it so far:

How can you identify a hypothetical boxlock action built in London in the late 1870's-early 1880's (if there were any) from those built in Birmingham?!!!

That's pretty much the essence of this line and it's an important question. Thanks to Bushveld for bringing this to the fore.

I wonder if a maker had to be a member of the Worshipful Company to have his guns proved in London.Others will know more about this than me. I noted a number of Scottish makers who sent their guns to London
for proofing, when Birmingham would have been closer, no doubt for the perceived cachet. For a London maker to send guns to Birmingham would have meant extra expense and administration plus increased risk of damage or loss.
Even if Reilly did not make the actions he would still have to proof the gun when the barrels were fitted, if he intended to sell the gun. With 300 employees you would think he would have been delivering guns for proof each week and picking them up to bring back to the factory for careful cleaning, as the London proof house did not clean the guns after proof, according to some records concerning the Colt Agency in London prior to 1913.

Regards

AlanD