doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Yet another 1903 Grampa rifle

One of the things that found it's way home with me this year was a 1903 chambered in .308 Norma Magnum. It's yet another sporterized "custom" from either the 60s or the 70s (judging from the stock shape and the chambering) that my father-in-law used for many years on deer, elk, and even antelope. My 17-year old asked for it on this last trip and Grandma acquiesced. It's nothing as nice as the earlier 1903s posted here and has seen fairly hard use but... my boy shot it very effectively last week (using ancient factory Norma ammo) and he's got big plans for it. Brass, dies and loading data got dispersed with Grampa's other reloading supplies before I could review them so we're probably on our own own here when it comes time to work up a load for it. It weighs a ton (8-9 lbs) and is stocked for a right-hander which is a mild complication since my boy shoots left (left-eye dominant) but he seemed to adapt readily when he fired it. He has elk tags for December here so...time is somewhat short for all that. Any insights or concerns here for using this old warhorse? Anybody have any .308 Norma Mag dies laying around?






No marking on the rifle other than this and the chambering. Ever heard of a Landgren(?), Landopen(?) custom rifle maker? Not very impressive other than it works very well. History on rifle is that it came from near Chisum, Minnesota in the 1980s.

A rifle from that date would probably be a 308 Norma, the 300 Norma is a later dated cartridge and they are different. Only a guess however.

As a fellow southpaw can I suggest that you son invest in a slip on stock cover to hold some foam as a cheek rest.

Otherwise with the breaking wave design of the right handed comb he may find himself developing a flinch.

I've shot that gun left-handed and it's pretty unpleasant (definitely a Magnum). He, however, is quite ambidextrous and is otherwise very right-handed. Learning to shoot both ways isn't all bad, I suspect.

Lloyd

I entirely agree that training yourself to shoot a rifle off either shoulder is a worthwhile exercise.

If you are sat in a small high seat and a deer appears behind your wrong shoulder , being able to switch your shooting shoulder very much beats toppling gracefully to the forest floor whilst twisting to take the shot.

Our current British service rifle is a bull pup, can only be shot right-handed and puts the troops at a severe disadvantage when negotiating unfriendly right hand corners.

I appreciate that you won’t want to take a rasp to the stock of your Father in law’s rifle but as a left-hander I would want to put some temporary padding between myself and the sharp edge of that cheek piece.

First World War snipers used to tie on a sealed first field dressing package that did the job nicely, although in their case the problem was no cheek support rather than the wrong shape.

As a post-script to this post, I'm processing a nice, big cow elk that my son shot with this rifle. If I had any concerns earlier about his ability to shoot both left and right-handed, they have been firmly resolved now. I have also procured some Redding dies and even some Norma brass (many thanks to Skeettx!) so... going forward we won't have to rely on the too-few hand-loaded cartridges we received with the gun last Fall. I'd like to think that his Grandfather was somehow with him on this challenging (long, cold & grueling) but very-successful adventure and that he somehow knows his rifle has found a secure new home. It brought tears to Grandma's eyes when she heard the news.

Many years back at a gunshow, I picked up an FN Haitian military Mauser action (these were made for 30-06 with a lengthened magazine and a notch in the receiver to clear the bullet noses loaded from GI stripper clips) ) and an in the white barrel with an unusual number of grooves (12) for 308 Norma Mag. Total outlay was $45. My neighbor gave me a nice stock which I fitted to the barreled action and glass bedded and added a Lyman 48 sight. It shot well with 180 grain Noslers seated to an OAL of 3.31 inches over 71 grains of the old surplus 4831 in Norma brass with Federal LRM primers. You do have to be careful with some published loads as the original Norma chamber in the S&H rifles had some freebore to reduce pressure and since the early rifles were custom gunsmith chambered they may or may not have the freebore. Mine was freebored. I sold the rifle a few years ago and all the brass and dies I had went with it.

The rifle is a 1903-A3. A man's guns should go to his children/grandchildren/great grandchildren. Good on your mother-in-law for giving it to your son. I hope he enjoys, cherishes, and gets a lot of use from it. The 308 Norma is a very good caliber, practically the same as the 30/338 wildcat.
Mike

Der Ami: Thankyou! Thankfully, nobody else seemed much interested in this rifle. Settling the estate was simple in some ways (and complex in others) so the way it worked out was very fortunate for my son. There is much I don't know about both the '03-A3 and the .308 Norma Magnum. My limited reading has me thinking the 1903 Springfield and the '03-A3 are slightly different(?) in that the later versions incorporated some changes to make for easier mass-production? I believe this version is an earlier rifle. My knowledge about this Norma cartridge is even more limited as I've not found much about it's history yet. Visually, they do remind me of the .300 Winchester, with perhaps a shorter neck and ballistically I remember them being very similar as well. In a comparison to the damage done by a .300 Weatherby on game animals I've processed, it is much less destructive, punching a neat hole instead of turning everything to jelly. No matter...he seems to really be pleased with it. Looking forward to teaching him how to reload for it. Halfadouble's suggestion about limiting overall length to 3.31 inches is something I'll be paying particular attention to. How these handloads he inherited with it fit into the magazine of this rifle is of some concern, as there is very little room for any more length (I expect that there is a good reason for that). I will also be examining the chamber for the presence (or absence) of any freebore. I'll likely be carefully measuring his grandfathers handloads for OAL and then try to duplicate them. I just wish I'd had first crack at his grandad's reloading supplies (and possible notes). I'm only guessing at what powders he was using for it right now. I suspect 4350 but 4831 is also a good possibility.

The times seem near when a descendant of an arbitrary cut off age will be a criminal just for having grandpa's old rifle.

Lloyd, the 308 Norma Mag has a longer neck than the 300 Win Mag. Here's some of the history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Norma_Magnum As it points out, if you have the dies you can form the brass from 300 Win Mag. That's what I did for the first go round back in the 80s. Then I picked up some once fired Norma brass then found some new Norma brass. It all went when I sold the rifle.

Thanks for that. Finally went back into my reloading books and found some more information about this cartridge. 1960 was the year of introduction (Norma brass became available in 1961) and it was designed for the reasons I'd understood...for use in surplus .30-06 actions. It was fairly successful until Winchester came out with the .300 in 1963 and became the more common alternative. Ballistically they are nearly identical.

Lloyd 3,
You are correct that the modifications to the Springfield resulting in the 1903-A3 were to speed up wartime production. Other than finish, the major differences were the use of stamped parts in stock hardware and the bottom metal. A major improvement was changing to an aperture rear sight ( some might disagree), attached by a dovetail milled into the receiver bridge. DCM sold a great many, both 1903 and 1903-A3 to NRA members for a very attractive price ( as I remember $15) in the 1960s. They sold them later, but after the Clintons tried to stop the program, prices went way up. The 308 Norma didn't lose out to 300 Win. because it wasn't a great cartridge, but because 300 Win. was available in American rifles and Ammo was more common. The American Rifleman ran articles describing different ways to "sporterize" these rifles. I think it would be good to save some of your father in laws ammo as keepsakes for your son, it was loaded by his granddad's hands. Your idea that your father-in-law likely used either 4350 or 4831 has merit, but another possibility is Norma 205 which was replaced by Norma MRP. It sounds like your son will not only have his granddad's rifle, but will cherish learning to load for it with his dad. Good on you too.
Mike

I've posted this here earlier in the "my season has ended" post but it seems appropriate here as well. Sending out my check for the brass for this rifle today and down to one tub of trimmings for the two animals we brought home this year. What is it that Stan says...."my cup runneth over". Clearly, mine does as well.

Llyod3
His granddad is smiling too.
Mike