doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Sacrilege?

I know it's considered sacrilege to put Briley's in a hammer pigeon gun, but I'm unfamiliar with later English boxlocks. Would it be as bad to put them in a 1925-1940 trap gun? It's currently XF/XF which is altogether to tight for my uses, but I love the gun. I doubt I will sell it in the next decade or more, and it would be much more usable with screw in chokes, but I hate bodgering something if it would effect the value/sellablility as it would if it were a hammer pigeon gun! What are your thoughts?

Is it a collectible or a shooter? I wouldn’t hesitate to put thinwalls in a shooter.

You should do what makes you happy. Call Briley and see about putting the notch less tubes in. I know a guy who had that done to his Boss and lock tight them in. They were practically invisible and you really had to look close to tell.
Cheers

It’s your gun.
Do what makes it work for you.

I wouldn't hesitate the least bit to put thinwall Briley choke tubes in any shooter, regardless of who made it. A really pristine American classic might give me pause, but certainly no English or European boxlock. Or sidelock either, for that matter...
JR

🤦🤦 Please do not believe everything you read on the internets. A shooter grade boxlock you will not hurt the value much, a nice sidelock.....NO, Never.

It's a high grade boxlock.... which is the part giving me pause. It's a Cashmore, so not exactly collectable however

cashmore made nice gons...don flock it up...

Same guy that will scream about putting screw in chokes in doesn't see anything wrong with honing the chokes on a vintage gun.

I say go for it....not sure I would put the notchless chokes in.
Notched chokes can be a pain to get out sometimes I can only imagine how hard a notchless choke could potentially be to get out.

I do not think you will hurt the value a ton, you will narrow the market of buyers some I believe. In reading your I am not 100% sure if the gun in question is a pigeon gun but I believe it is, I think the potential buyers of pigeon guns may be more accepting to screw in chokes than your average buyer of a British upland gun. In short, probably not the end of the world if done properly.

well, most likely the barrels walls are too thin anyway...an then there is the possibility that installing screwy tubes may change the regulation of one or both barrels...which causes some buyers to hesitate or pass...

opening chokes is a far more practical idea...i would think...

and of course, there is the fact that different ammo brands and different loads sometimes provide different patterns in the same gun...

It's YOUR gun.

I had Briley thin walled chokes put into a John Rigby side lever side lock that had been sleeved. The extra full and modified that the gun was bored for wasn't of much use to me.

Nothing to do with "believing everything you read on the "internets". Strictly one opinion vs another. Yours is no better than mine or vice versa.
JR

It has nothing do do with opinion, adding chokes tubes takes the gun out of proof, an in proof British Sidelock is always worth more than the same gun out of proof. Guys who write big checks for British sidelocks get this.

If you keep confronting SKB with facts and the truth, John, you are going to find yourself censored or "moderated".

Actually, the advice given by ed good made as much sense as anything posted here... unless the ultimate goal is interchangeable chokes. In that event, jOe's advice to avoid notchless choke tubes makes sense, assuming the muzzles are thick enough to accommodate them.

What does it matter in the U. S. of A., where there's never been a proof house for firearms, and especially if we are talking shooters, which I thought was the case? Pretty sure guys who write big checks for British sidelocks can find all the "in proof" guns they want without thinwalls installed. Nobody is saying someone should, would, or could take an $80,000 Purdey down to Briley and get thinwalls installed just to prove they don't care about proof.
JR

It matters because the market recognizes the value difference, you might not get it but the buyers of really good British guns do get it. Low dollars shooters sure, but your statement was that you would only hesitate installing tubes on pristine American guns. Plenty of sub 80K British guns would take a beating value wise if you added choke tubes to them. They are not all collector pieces to be sure but pretty much any British sidelock over 10K is going to be much harder to sell if it is out of proof.

People pay more for numbers matching muscle car than they do for one with a new crate motor in it, why? Because the market places greater value on originality. The concept is not that different than paying more for an in proof gun

Since you can't seem to "get" what I'm trying to say, here's this for an example of what I'm talking about:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...lock-ejector-12-ga-.cfm?gun_id=101737670
Or this:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...crool-12-bore.cfm?gun_id=101685010#lg-12
Or this:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...rong-field-12-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101758168
Or this:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...s-wild-sle-12-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101746621

Kapish?
JR

It appeared from this statement to me you were talking better guns than you linked to. Those guns above are all well used, and minus the Wild it would be hard to hurt them much. Even the Wild would suffer a value hit from adding choke tubes to it though. It is hard to sell guns for close to 10 K if they are not in proof.

Be sure you have enough wall thickness. I once had Briley install thin walls into a 12 gauge Sauer and looking down the barrel on the outside I could see tiny bulges where the threads were cut inside. Bothered the heck out of me but few other people would have seen it.

SKB, would you still expect it to take a hit if the gun was a two barrel set, one in proof and one only out of proof due to the Brileys?

Cuzin John....

Don't argue with a liberal gun farmer.

"PrOOf" means literally nothing unless you plan to export it back to England.

Same gun'smurfer that knows all about proof will be the first to run in.a reamer and lengthen a chamber.

Or sell it to a knowledgeable buyer.

Not near as much. Having one set of barrels in proof will maintain the vast majority of the guns value.

I have also seen this several times, but not just with tubes installed by Briley. Customers who want barrels threaded for choke tubes are often uninformed about the consequences. There's a very fine line between having enough meat at the muzzles to install them, and having enough for it not to show on the outside. I have had three guns that Briley installed their thin walls into, a MX8 Perazzi which I sent to them and had them do, and a 1973 made Italian hammergun and a 103 yr. old Fox. Both the Italian gun and the Fox were that way when I bought them. There is/was no visible evidence of anything having ever been done by looking at the outside surfaces of the barrels.

My advice to anyone who communicates with any 'smith to have barrels threaded for choke tubes would be to specify clearly, more than once, and in writing, that you absolutely do not want it done if there will be the visible evidence of internal threading that Joe describes. Briley, or anyone else with the experience necessary to do this right can determine that beforehand by measuring wall thicknesses.

The OP stated that he wouldn’t look to sell for at least a decade.
If the chokes work for him he likely won’t sell.
It’s a user , not collector grade gun.
If he does sell, another shooter interested in shooting, not collecting, would be the right buyer.