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Sidelock
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2002 was a pretty good time to be buying unused English guns. I owned a few. That said, the guns I see these days from England, at that pricing, seem “tired”.

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Ted

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A nice Webley 700 for 3K, hard to beat it:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...gauge-28-quot-bbls-.cfm?gun_id=101718767

A friend picked up a very high condition Alex Martin sidelock at Holts two years ago, delivered in hand for 4300$. The gun has 80% CC , great barrels and is cased. You have to look around but good deals exist.

Last edited by SKB; 09/28/21 10:06 PM.

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Mine was a tough sell, you may remember it here a few years back. A 1964 NIB 700, straight stock, 30". Took about 3 years to get my $3K and that was NIB.

Guy who bought it promptly had the stock cut and chokes opened. In fact it was delivered to the smith.


My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
- Errol Flynn
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Originally Posted by SKB
A nice Webley 700 for 3K, hard to beat it:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...gauge-28-quot-bbls-.cfm?gun_id=101718767

A friend picked up a very high condition Alex Martin sidelock at Holts two years ago, delivered in hand for 4300$. The gun has 80% CC , great barrels and is cased. You have to look around but good deals exist.

I think I said guys of average means would be better served with newer guns, Steve.

Like a 700. Didn’t say 700, but, you get the point.

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Ted

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Originally Posted by ed good
seems like no one wants to address the scale issue...


well. then there is the thing about the use of acid flux in the 1800's to solder shotgun barrels together...the acid keeps working long after the barrels are joined...eventually resulting in paper thin barrel walls between the ribs...

There really is no reason to address the scale issue Ed, because it is pretty much a non-issue. Scale begins to form as soon as red hot steel or iron comes in contact with the oxygen in the air. It is a form of oxidation that blacksmiths learned to control and remove when forge welding, long before they began making Damascus barrels. Over time, they discovered the best materials to use as fluxes to prevent scale when producing barrels, knives, swords, and other items. Some of these materials, like sodium tetraborate are still widely used today for forge welding. It is almost certain that a small amount of scale was trapped within the welds of Twist and Damascus, but it isn't enough to materially weaken the barrels. They were made with a built-in safety margin, and they were proof tested with high pressure loads. Like modern steel tubes that are proof tested, the defective ones don't usually make it out the door. Even after 100 years or more, Damascus barrels that are given proper care do not self destruct and rust away like a cancer is eating them from within. But even the best Kilby or Whitworth or Krupp fluid steel barrels will become pitted and dangerous if they are neglected and permitted to rust and corrode. There are literally millions of surviving Damascus guns that prove guys like Randy Wakeman wrong every day.

Same goes for the thing about acid flux being used to tin and solder barrels together. The flux is displaced by the molten solder, and none remains under the solder. As long as the corrosive residue is neutralized and flushed away after soldering, then there is nothing left in between those barrels to eat them away. And if that corrosive flux residue had been left in between our barrels and ribs, it sure wouldn't take over 100 years to eat holes in the tubes. The damage would have happened fairly soon after they were built.

What it boils down to is this... somewhere out there tonight... on some classic or muscle car forum, there is a guy saying he will never drive a 1963 Corvette split window coupe because it does not have 3 point seat belts and air bags. And there is another guy who says he would never drive a 1934 Deusenberg because it does not have dual circuit brake master cylinders, crush zones and engineered door and roof pillars to protect him in a crash. Most of us here grew up without ever wearing a bicycle helmet, riding in a protective infant car seat, or having pills in child-proof bottles and covers on receptacles. We played with fireworks and BB guns that could put your damn eye out. Somehow we survived. And I'll continue to live dangerously... shooting guns that have survived over 100 years without any problems. Besides, there are worse things than blowing up a gun:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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I think I said a buyer should focus on condition, you get the point Ted.
Steve


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Re new guns vs old: While some guys rave about the CSMC Model 21's they've bought, I've read comments from a couple guys--one of whom I know as an experienced shotgunner who isn't inclined to whine about minor problems--that theirs have been money pits.

And I'm pretty sure I commented here about my attempts to buy one of the Savage Fox A Grades (basically an RBL dressed up a bit to look like a Fox). Also a CSMC product. I eventually gave up. I now own a REAL Fox A Grade 16ga with brand new barrels (left over when Savage stopped making them.) Restocked, etc. That's a lot of new stuff on an old gun, but the action is still original Fox and I love it.

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Glad it wasn’t your first gun, Larry. Otherwise you might be golfing.


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Ted

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Ted by now everyone knows SKB is a liberal internet pOser....

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Better head back to the safety of your recliner frAnk, maybe grab a blanket along the way. At your advanced age I would not want you to catch a bug, it could be fatal. The pups and I posing last year with some wild SD roosters and my H&H.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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