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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Here 'ya go Keith, since you "have no exact dates (sic - data?) at hand right now" and apparently couldn't find the time to locate it.

Sporting Guns and Gunpowders: Comprising a Selection from Reports of Experiments, and Other Articles Published in the “Field” Newspaper, Relative to Firearms and Explosives, 1897
http://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ
“Powder Pressures At Different Parts of the Gunbarrel”, 1895
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA32&dq

Black Powder Pressures for a service load of 3 Dram Eq. with 1 1/8 oz. #6 shot at 1220 fps

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

72 gr. C&H No. 2 T.S. (somewhat similar to FFFg) = 3.2 Tons = 9,632 psi (converted using Burrard's formula)
84 gr. C&H No. 6 T.S. (similar to Fg) = 2.1 Tons = 5,936 psi
82 Gr Curtis & Harvey’s No. 4 T.S. (similar to FFg)
Breech - 2.26 Tons = 6474 psi
2 1/2" - 1.96 Tons = 5466 psi
6” - 1.26 Tons = 3114 psi
12” - .9 Tons = 1904 psi
18” - .37 Tons
24” - .27 Tons



And as jones said, the British Proof House made no mention of service pressure until 1925; when the 12g barrel flats were marked with chamber length and 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz.
The 2 1/2” & 2 5/8” 12g maximum service load was reduced to 3 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/8 oz. shot with a mean pressure of 3 1/4 tons by LUP = 9,800 psi by Burrard’s conversion.
The 2 3/4” 12g max. service load was 3 3/8 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/4 oz. shot with a mean pressure of 3 1/2 tons = 10,640 psi by Burrard’s conversion.

I "have no exact dates or data" as to Black Powder proof after the 1925 revisions and since, but hopefully Keith will post his research.

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Sidelock
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Joined: Jan 2006
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For those with the interest, the last article in John Brindle's series in The Double Gun Journal, “Black Powder & Smokeless, Damascus & Steel” was in Volume 5, Issue 3, Autumn, 1994, “Some Modern Fallacies Part 5”. He discusses in detail the progression of black and smokeless proof, but has very few pressure numbers.
This is one of his conclusions:
"The pressures produced in the breechloader by black powder, as black powder was actually loaded at the end of the 19th century, were not significantly lower than those given by smokeless (then often termed “semi-smokeless”) powders developed as a substitute for, and an improvement on, black powder."

Our local library obtained a PDF copy of the entire series for me in 2016, but it is under copyright by DGJ so I can't share it.

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Sidelock
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Preacher, I'm not sure why Dave has not yet approved my earlier reply to you, yet approved my replies to MC and SKB. I don't think it was any more vicious or mean than this recent reply you made to ED.

Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Playing the victim is a sociopathic manipulative technique ed. You knew perfectly well what you were doing with your post. You saw an opportunity for self-promotion (which is the point of most of your posts) and took it - twice.
Unlike the your gun selling business, the medical profession has certain standards of ethical behavior, monitored by local, state and national governmental and professional certification entities. Violation of those standards (which often occurs when medicine become a business) eventually has consequences - personal relational failures, substance abuse, law suits, loss of license, jail time.
Fortunately there are plenty of ethical dealers, smiths and hobby sellers and collectors here that set better examples.

And I thought that reply to Ed was pretty funny, considering all of the times you have played the victim here... such as when Conservative commentary pushed you over the edge, and you posted this emotional farewell... but didn't really leave, and continued to log in, read replies, and even make replies:

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456891&page=1

Of course there have been other times you played the victim, and did things like posting pics of your dead dog and little Guatemalan kids to gin-up sympathy.

That stuff about your supposed medical profession ethics was precious too. You have frequently made medical psychological diagnosis right here, over the internet, without ever personally examining the patient. And I do not believe that you are a licensed Psychiatrist or Psychologist either... are you? And even when it comes to being a Preacher, you falsely accused me of proof texting scripture, yet ignored repeated my requests to show us exactly how or where I did that. I'm still waiting... but we both know your real intent was to make me look bad, and yourself virtuous... which is simply hilarious.

And note this well, I never said that I would actually return with data or dates concerning the inception of accurate pressure measurement in guns by Ballisticians and Proof Houses. My reply to Shotgunjones was intended to give him something factual to consider, and my final statement there was intended to trigger a copy-and-paste wannabe shotgun expert into revealing himself. Mission accomplished.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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