doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Well, what do you know?

“sportsmen are the conservationists, while animal rights activist groups are pretenders.”

We’ve known this all along but now the facts. And in Forbes, no less.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisd...hts-vs-hunters-who-really-helps-animals/

Some people simply take longer to wake up than others. We've known that for the most part, animal rights types (and basically all "non-consumptive" users --"consumptive" being their description of hunters, anglers, and trappers) are freeloaders. Meanwhile, we pay for conservation via our license fees. We pay again via the hidden tax on firearms and ammunition which gets parceled out to the states to spend on conservation based on license sales. And we pay by supporting hunting, angling, and general conservation groups that support REAL conservation efforts rather than "animal rights".

I have seen the fallout of animal rights fanaticism in the course of doing conservation in Africa. The short version: they are concerned only with the individual animal and being nice to it. They have no concept of or interest in populations, species, ecosystems, or landscapes; they care only that no white guy with a gun is ever mean to an animal. They say nothing as the last remnants of African wildlife are being snared and poisoned to near extinction – nice people wouldn’t dream of noticing when indigenous people destroy wildlife indiscriminately or overgrazing turns vast ecosystems into rock desert. They are clueless about the reality of wild animals’ lives and got their education in wildlife biology from watching Bambi; wild animals should have the same life as their dear little Fluffy.

And if you dare say anything about hunting as a conservation tool, something obvious to virtually everyone who does conservation in Africa, they do their best to destroy you. Sadly, wealthy American and British animal rights groups have controlled wildlife policy in Kenya for decades, standing quietly by during an 80% collapse in wildlife numbers since the 1977 hunting ban. They are gaining influence in other countries.

For a very readable account, see Glen Martin’s Game Changer: Animal Rights and the Future of Africa’s Wildlife.

I have fed 99 times the number of birds I have harvested. Have spent tens of thousand in an attempt to restore quail population on my land only to have DNR ruin almost 20 years of work in less than two years. Today where ten plus coveys once were, now in a good year you might find one or two. I’ve had neighbors call the game wardens when I was hunting on my farm. They did not like the shooting nearby, half a mile nearby. I’ve never met a “Ecologist” who spent their own money or time and labor to improve wildlife. They always want to spend others.

Jon, please don't confuse ecologists with armchair animal lovers or preservationists. Plenty who own land spend their money and labor improving it for wildlife and habitat restoration in the tradition of Aldo Leopold and his classic Sand County Almanac.

You might be commenting about identity politics, and the same courtesy will not be returned to you.

Most of the self called ecologist I have had to deal with have been of the PETA type not those who are science based. Far more of them than the real ones. As to PETA I won’t use the language I’d like to here to describe their actions. But self appointed experts are too often self educated with misleading information or biased views.

PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals.
Karl

Jon, glad to hear that you are referring to PETA nutcases; see my long comment above about that ilk. Animal rights activists calling themselves ecologists and conservationists is like me calling myself a brain surgeon.

Craig, I don't understand your comment. We are talking about professional ecologists vs. animal rights fanatics.

Would you say the same thing about the contrarians who attempt to educate the masses about the many falsehoods told to us in order to advance the prevailing dogma concerning climate change???

I didn't think so. I suppose you could say my comment has nothing to do with doubles, like so much which is posted here. But if the Liberal Left Climate Nazi's get their way, our lowered standard of living will affect our ability to afford fine guns, shooting, and hunting trips.

The bottom line with climate Nazi is follow the money this is big business and as long as China will not cripple there economy for climate change and build coal fired power plants anything we do is meaningless I watched a very good lecture with three scientist going over the money train and explaining how it works.if you as a scientist came out and said the problem can't be solved you cut off your money

Sounds like your neighbors are real assholes--a zero dark 30 op might be called for, to teach them the MYOB mantra. Iodine in a gas tank, unlike sugar, can't be stopped by a filter, and is undetectable-- go for it. RWTF

Why not just put a bomb under their car?


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Hopefully it’s an Oldsmobile so you can kill two birds with one stone.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program!

This article is older, nicely lays out the reasons for the shortfall of conservation funding in the US. Fits well with the OP's article.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation

I see that the MNDNR is poking around for ideas to generate money. Interesting read on their site.

Chief

Watching the DNR for the last four or five decades, I always got the vibe that timber, deer, and, of late, turkeys were the things that they cared about. Small game issues mostly seemed like an eye roll, “whatever” type of sentiment to them. Fishing is a big deal here, and in spite of the emphasis on enforcement, they managed to screw up management of that resource bigly, on more than one occasion-see collapse of Red Lake and Mille Lacs fishery’s for perfect examples of that.

I have friends that aged out of the game well before age 65. A shame. The labs and Setters are gone, replaced with wiener dogs.

Best,
Ted

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Could be worse. You could live in Detroit, facing Windsor, with a wiener dog.
Only a few guys that God hates that much.

I hear ya, Ted. I’d hate to be that old, fat, ugly, broken armed, one-eyed guy dragin’ his arse to work Monday morning in an Oldsmobile.


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That’s gotta suck.

The Olds, much like you, doesn’t make it to work.
I gotta’ suspicion that your mug is unsuitable for pictures. Prove me wrong.

Best,
Ted
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Again, my two arms work better than your two remaining teeth.

The article has an unfortunate political slant. There are many references to percentages and fifty years ago, which of course there are now nearly double the bodies within the US borders, and mushrooming at an undocumented rate.

A policy making trend has emerged, where P-R act funds 'revert' to the fedgov as unobligated funds, approximately fifty(!) percent in recent years. The state level programs that are funded, require approval from, you know who. Many 'bird watching' lobbyists are controlling sportsmans funds that trickle back to states, for nonhunting 'projects'. Another tactic, is that funds are allocated based on land area, but large land mass states such as Alaska, are unable to meet requirements to receive full funding, so allocations favor states such as California with their fire management and conservation plans.

Yup- our State Raccoon Rangers have slapped a $25.00 extra license fee on fezzants for the Fall season ( a farce) from 10 Oct through 14 Nov- 2 roosters a day limit--like to know the rhyme and reason for that. RWTF

Fox,
I didn't even bother to buy the Pheasant stamp this year, I couldn't believe that it happened!
Karl

craigd,
I suppose I didn't pick up on that political slant. While it may be true that P-R funds are being misdirected, it is money and it is our government we're discussing! Please flesh out the misdirection, I'd like to know more.
I believe the article's thrust was the diminished amount of raw dollars from conventional sources, hunting and fishing licenses access fees etc. and the position that the State's wildlife management(s) have found themselves in.
It's becoming obvious that other users of the resource are going to have to ante up, and soon.
Chief

Colorado has taken an aggressive stance to bring in more revenue and to sell more licenses.

Our State Wildlife Areas now require an access pass be purchased if you are using them for anything other than hunting or fishing. Riding your bike? Sure, but you have to buy the pass.

Colorado big game, specifically Elk is what brings in out of state hunters. Now anyone, resident or not is required to buy a "qualifying license" before purchasing a big game tag. Small game, Turkey and Bear all count as qualifying licenses. The state makes the revenue off the license sales and draws more P&R funds as well.

Good for Colorado! All user's of the "resource" should be involved in its continuance. I mountain bike and do some hiking in addition to hunting and fishing, a few bucks isn't a lot for what I get.
Chief

The Missouri DOC is funded by hunting and fishing licenses and is basically run by sportsmen. When people [censored] about us killing birdies and such, I just advise them to buy hunting and fishing licenses and they'll get a vote. To my knowledge, no Walt Disney fan has ever taken me up on it. They are basically Puritans - terrified that someone, somewhere is happy.

It’s so that boomers can shoot pen raised pheasants.
Put and Take failed, so the MPHI did an end run via their pals in the legislature.

They dump birds into a field I have walked since 1962, right down the road from my home.

Turning a place of wonderful childhood memories into a free-for-all slaughter.

A quick resume' of source of PR and DJ funds:

PR
11% of sale price for bows;
11% of sale price of broadheads, field points, quivers, bow sights, arrow rests, stabilizers, wrist slings, strings, string silencers, or any other piece of equipment that would be physically attached to a bow;
$0.53 per arrow (This rate is as of 2020. The rate per arrow increases each year with the annual IRS determination of inflation);
10% of sale price on pistols;
11% of sale of firearms other than pistols;
11% of sale price of ammunition;
Manufactured parts of firearms, pistols, bows, or ammunition purchased unassembled, taxed at the same rate at which the complete piece is taxed.

DJ
10% excise tax on sport fishing equipment.

Both PR and DJ taxes are paid before we buy the items, but are of course added to the price. Other consumptive and recreational users of lands purchased and maintained with these funds make no such contributions.

In the Letters to the Editor section of this mornings’ Denver Post referencing an article last week on dove hunting.

“Promoting dove hunting is disgusting. Using a .410 shotgun to murder unsuspecting and defenseless doves is disgusting. What is wrong with people? According to birdsandblooms.com, doves have good parenting skills; they mate for life; they fly up to 55 mph. Doves stockpile food. Doves eat weed seeds, which is valuable to farmers or anyone living near vacant lots, and doves are beautiful.
“Shame on mindless people who murder doves. For shame, for shame, for shame.”
Donald L. Vasicek, Centennial

I agree. A 20 gauge throws a much better pattern than a .410.