doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dickenson Estate

I've had this gun since 2016. An associate of mine was running the gun room at the Cabelas in Lonetree and he made me a generous offer on an early M31 I was tendering in trade. Because it was the two gauge (.410/28) combo and likely because nobody knew much about Dickenson's then (other than that they were "Turkish" [it had evidently also been around that gun room for some time]), in the end, I had to lay out very little money for it. The triggers were horrendous and I had my buddy ship it directly to Dickenson's designated service facility (in Oregon, I believe) and after much discussion (even involving some minor threats) it was returned to me with 3 1/2 and 4 lb pulls totally free of charge (which on a 5 1/4 lb gun is the upper limit for decent). I've always enjoyed the fiddleback, but the finish on it was a bit thin from day one, so I recently employed the services of yet another associate to add an additional layer of oil to protect it better from the elements up on our northern border.

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A true round-body trigger plate action, and with lovely bone-charcoal hardening throughout (which shockingly....reminds me very much of David McKay Brown's lovely creations) and with adult dimensions and 28-inch tubes. It's modern steel easily digests modern ammunition and it even has choke tubes (in the 28-bore barrels). Because of our current munitions drought, it will serve this year to help extend my limited supply of 16 RSTs up there

We taped off the checkering and hit it with Minwax Spar Urethane spray (only the finest for my high-dollar guns). Completed pix to follow.

Looks to be a very decent gun. A mite short on engraving, but very suitable for stated purpose. At stated weight, it is likely to be either a "magic wand" or a "whippy little zitch" depending on who is on the wood end. Nice photos, BTW.

DDA

While it may remind you of a DMB or a Dickson, but it absolutely looks nothing like them internally or externally.

Internally, your Dickinson looks exactly like a Japanese made SKB. It lacks the type of mainsprings used in those Scottish RA guns, among a myriad of other differences.

Externally, the action shape isn’t even close to as rounded as a DMB, Dickson or MacNaughton. A manufrance Ideal is much more rounded than these Dickinsons are.

It does look to be nicely finished up though. Case coloring is very nice. A couple of friends who I shoot with own them and they seem very happy with them, especially for the amount of money laid down for them. (Less than $1500).

I have enjoyed mine a great deal over the last 6 years. Zero mechanical issues. Love the strong ejectors. Accepted for what it is, it can be enjoyed. Put up beside London or Edinburgh guns, not so much.

Here's the thing about these guns ............ I've looked long and hard for 30" barreled .410 S X Ss (we won't even broach the subject of 32" barreled ones). They're as scarce as hen's teeth. I've bought two new ones in the last six years, the Dickinson and the FAIR Iside TG. If I could find a Parker it would cost me $40K, or more, and would look totally out of proportion because of the frame size (IMO). Vintage thirty-inch barreled .410 S X Ss are nearly non-existent, American or English. A custom built Italian one will cost you a small fortune. Dickinsons and Isides fill a void, albeit a fairly small one, for a niche group of us who love long-legged small bores. That's good enough, IMO.

The finish you used improved the looks Lloyd, and surely gives more protection. When I get the crop all in I'm going to try my hand at putting a sanded-in, Pilkington type finish on mine. I really like the way that finish looks, when done right. There's a thread way back about six years ago where someone showed a Dickinson they had Mark Larson finish, and it really looked good, too.

Inside it's still a Turkish turd....

That was my Larsonized Dickinson, Stan. Changed my handle here to DoubleTake (previously Dave Erickson). In the end I didn't shoot it well enough, but now have a 30" 16 gauge Iside that weighs 6 oz. less and for whatever reasons it really shoots well for me. Both good and practical guns.

I have no illusions about what this gun is or isn't. It simply fills a slot in my battery of guns and like the rest, it has a job to do. The fact that it does it fairly well now (after many interventions to make it what I think I need) explains a lot about why it cost me so-little to acquire it. Would I like to own a DMB or a McNaughton instead? Absolutely. Can I justify the significant investment needed to acquire such a toy? Probably not. It's extremely light and yet I actually shoot it fairly well, a pocket full of 28s weigh almost nothing (when compared to a pocket of 12s), and.... for the most part it's attractive to look at and fun to use. No downside here, and in my mind...a fairly good value. Where am I wrong? My goal in posting this little missive was to illustrate the minimal effort needed to make this weapon useful and pleasant to employ. Sub-gauge guns often exist in a place that many can't justify exploring. These guns can allow for that to happen in a reasonable and practical way.

You’re not wrong it all!! It just shouldn’t remind you or anyone of a DMB or any other Scottish RA. Why, because it’s nothing like them. Not in aesthetics. Not in fit or finish. Not in anything. Exactly the same way a RBL is in no way similar to a RA.

It’s a nice, well priced, fully functional Turkish made trigger plate gun, and you & others really seem to enjoy shooting. Nothing is ever wrong with that!

Completed project...







Didn't really change much (started out satin, ended satin), but now I won't worry about getting it out in the rain (that urethane is truly impervious). At least it doesn't look so darn dried-out...

It is somewhat sacrilegious (at least here) to compare this to a DMB or other Scottish product, but neither is it just another boxlock. It is clearly different from most of the other low-buck offerings and is probably why they're no-longer so cheap (if you can find one).

Beware of Dickinson guns. I will share a horror story of absolutely the worst customer service and shade tree mechanic gunsmithing repair done by Dickinson on one of their SxS's. waiting for photos. after seeing what happened to a friend/client of mine with his, no way would I buy one. and Ill name names and give full details of what they did and show the proof.
they were given plenty of opportunities and time to make it right after making it wrong. They didnt come through. they basically blew him off with more excuses.

solt one about ah month ago...aint herd nuttin bad so far...

awh contrare...lots of praise an ack co la days...

I almost bought the 28 gauge with 30" barrels at the Cabela's in Hamburg a few years ago. Damn thing was rather amazing for the dollars. However, I was quoted a price by the shop manager when I was looking at the gun and called back the next day and they told me that quote was wrong and that the gun was $200 higher. I passed on that managers name and they said it was still in error and I passed on the gun. It was however rather amazing for what it was. PS. Bought a Parker Repro 28 gauge instead. Different level of fit and finish although it didn't have the 30" barrels.

Brian,
Not judging, just asking: when will you follow up with this fairly heavy indictment? I'm sure there's a significant interest here to know "the rest of the story". Thanks.
JR

...and will we get both sides of the story?

Just a wild guess here but .............probably not, IMO.

While waiting on an answer I happened to find some 28 bore ammo up here in Nowhere, Minnesota. Some AA 7 1/2s and some Fiocchi 5s(!) which I couldnt find in Colorado before leaving and none along the way (Sheels in Fargo or Cabelas in Grand Forks). Waiting patently for Saturday now as well...

Dang Lloyd, why veer off topic with this?
JR

I don’t know about the rest of his story, but when the trigger pulls on my dickinson got so heavy it wouldn’t fire, I sent it to the service department. Via the dealer.

They sent it back with a chunk knocked out of the barrels and a dent in the stock.
Like they clamped it in a vise with no protection.

And then had the temerity to tell me that I had to pay shipping both directions for clearly a manufacturing defect and the joy of their shoddy repair department.

I told them FO. We’re done.

Turns out there are a number of gunsmiths in the Midwest that after working on those guns for the last decade and a half, Have become quite competent at making them work properly.

Don't like the sound of that one. If memory serves, I used Pisco Gunsmithing in Coquille, Oregon which at the time was the designated service provider. God only know who they're using now.

Brian has always been a straight shooter with us here... unlike several notable regulars and ex-regulars. If he says he direct knowledge and evidence of a very bad experience with Dickenson customer service, I am inclined to believe him.

I also totally understand getting busy with other matters, and not being able to respond or follow-up on this forum as quickly as one might like. This is totally different than running away and ignoring repeated requests for proof of false or incorrect statements... another thing we have seen here from the notable regulars I mentioned earlier. I'd name names, but the recent moderation or censorship unfortunately probably won't permit it. But you know this as well as I do Stan, and you know how it has led to many "spirited" discussions that some sensitive types cannot tolerate. However Brian has never denied or ran away from a statement or direct unedited QUOTE of his own words.

BTW, the experience ClapperZapper relates with his gun seems to back up what Brian stated.

Can't speak to the present service situation (thankfully!) but I got to pattern my gun today with some different 28-gauge loads. The number 5s weren't really pretty at any range but the 7 1/2s were quite satisfactory. Another thing that was immediately obvious was the complete lack of "lead" in these guns. Very flat shooting (which I'd forgotten) so I'm grateful I got to do that before tomorrow's opener. Going to be a bit warm and windy here tomorrow so... I'm managing my expectations a bit. I'd normally start the season off with my Brummie 16 but since I've been using this one a bit lately I'll give it the nod tomorrow. Really looking forward lacing up my Russel's and hitting the trails again. It's been a long, frustrating year getting here. The long daily walks will be just what the doctor ordered.

Have a great opening day, Lloyd. The National Oldsmobile Club’s “Quad States” meet and show is in Bloomington, tomorrow, the wife, Olds, and I will make an appearance. Sunday brings the ABCE, or, All British Cycling Event, and I’ll be there, participating in The gravity race and pastry joust.

No birds for me.

Best,
Ted

It only gets better from here Ted. Come on up when you're ready. Enjoy the cars and the beautiful Fall weather.

Keith, you're looking for the worst possible meaning in what I said. I meant in no way to disparage Brian. He has always been straight up, IMO. My intention was that Brian will not know the complete other side of the story, and thus cannot relate it. That would have to come from Dickinson, or whoever the service center for them is. And, I doubt if they will be able to respond to this. My reply was a simple statement in answer to Wild Skies' question "and will we get both sides of the story?", and carried no further implication. We're both on the same side ........ lighten up.

John
Yes I am waiting for all of the emails from my friend to and from Dickinson. They went dark on him. after he asked about what they were finally going to do for the third of fourth time, they said they had to consult the factory. they never responded back to him. that was 2 months ago.
once I get all of the facts, I will post with a photo of the "repair" they did.

you will see the email traffic between him and them. and the repair itself. that will speak volumes to the issue.
I dont flame. I will present the facts.

Stan, I absolutely did not look for the worst possible meaning or interpretation of your reply to wild skies' question about whether we would get both sides of the story. Brian had stated he would provide all of the facts and show us proof. You said that your opinion was that we would not get both sides of the story.

I don't know Brian personally, but over time, it has became evident that Brian doesn't mince words, twist things, or make things up. Now Brian has returned to tell us that he intends to prove what he said with evidence including emails from "both sides". I felt and continue to feel that your reply to wild skies implied that Brian would not give us both sides of the story. I appreciate your explanation, but sure wish you had made your point with greater clarity. I was shocked that you said it that way, and felt motivated to respond.

I really believe that Brian will follow through with proof. On the other hand, a few years ago, the Preacher falsely accused me of "proof texting Scripture", yet he never followed through with my repeated requests for proof of that false statement. I just happen to feel that things like that tell us something about the integrity of a man. And that's why I saw no reason at this point to doubt Brian, of all people, and his ability to follow through.

Ted;
I am sending you a PM about Oldsmobile shop manuals.

Stephen Howell

Looks like you are having a fine time at the cabin Lloyd, that should make a delightful meal.

Pisco is still the authorized repair facility for Dickinson. I talked to Ken Brooks a couple of weeks ago about getting a 28 ga. SRX bbl. fitted to my 20 ga. Pacific Sporting Arms Dickinson Plantation Sporter. He said that he would if he could but cannot order barrels. Already talked to Dickinson HQ in Ca. about getting a 16 ga. SRX bbl. for my 12 ga. Plantation Sporter. I was told no way so dropped it.

Did have to use Ken bit more than a year ago when after ~8K rounds through my 12 ga. doubled on me. Split the wrist which Mark Larson took care of the wood and the repair is seamless, which is why I used him he does fantastic work. Ken also did a good job on the repair for me and told me it was the first time he had seen that on a 12 ga. Haven't had any issues since I got it back and have been running full bore 1 1/8 oz. target rounds through it with an ISIS recoil system. No complaints here.


Well done Lloyd! Bit jealous, I leave on Oct. 3 for 3 weeks at a cabin in the Arrowhead. I see you have 2 kettles at the cabin so your set! When I met brother canvasback a few years ago cooked some prime cut steaks for him and a couple others. With 2 kettles.





Last 3 years have moved up the Gunflint Trail and the cabin there has a built in grill, which is both good and bad. Can still make it work for most things including splatchcocking chicken and smoking with indirect heat.



Dogs need a rest once in awhile after all....

Have narrowed it down to the 3 guns I'm taking all 16 ga. Really liking the FAIR Iside a lot and it will be my main go to gun.



Have been avoiding the 28 ga. because not sure I want to get into reloading another gauge. But it is very tempting. And love how your Dickinson face lift turned out. Have fun and good luck you're off to a great start!

Thanks Steve, it makes for a good start.
Cold Iron: Those were my father-in-laws favorite way to grill just about everything here. I made steaks the other night and they still seem to have the magic in them. Good stuff!

Update" I am waiting for more details form my friend/client so that I can present the story accurately. not stalling. just waiting for my friend. I will post as a separate post. may be a delay as I am headed to Switzerland to take my fathers ashes to spread on his favorite ski areas in the Bernese Oberland region (Wengen & Grindewald)
Please be patient.

Sorry for your loss. Have a safe trip.

Best,
Ted

+1

Answered

Fun to see this again. Used my Estate several times this last Fall (when I wasn't hauling flood-damaged material to the dump). Hopefully, next year will see far-more use.