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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Merci. Voila notre dictionnaire de Français-Anglais, English-French terminologie pour les armes de chasse et de tir sportif que nous avons cree il y a plusieurs année. https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=480959
Last edited by Argo44; 07/15/21 08:25 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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Not sure where to put this, but OK you Stéphanoise Aficionados, a fella over @ Shotgunworld needs an ID: I can move the inquiry if need be. Serbus, Raimey rse Salut, Il y a quelques jours, j'ai fait une découverte sur ce type d'arme. En 1923, la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne crée sa filiale Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne. Celle-ci a été créée pour la vente d'armes en gros aux armuriers. Les fusils vendus n'auront aucun marquage de la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne. D'après la photo des plats de canons, l'arme aurait été fabriquée entre 1926 (épreuve Manufrance) et 1931 (à partir de cette année, ce fusil sera estampillé "Costo" sous la bascule). Le fusil 250, Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne, est un modèle 20 Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne (période 1924/1931) ou bien un modèle 202 (période 1931/1939). J'espère que vous parviendrez à comprendre ce que j'écris.
Last edited by fab500; 08/22/21 06:54 AM.
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Merci pour ton information Fab, et comme d'habitude il est nouveau, complet and très interessant.
Here's a simple (non-academic) translation:
Salut,
Il y a quelques jours, j'ai fait une découverte sur ce type d'arme. Several days ago I discovered this type of arm:
En 1923, la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne crée sa filiale Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne. Celle-ci a été créée pour la vente d'armes en gros aux armuriers. Les fusils vendus n'auront aucun marquage de la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne. In 1923 la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne created a subsidiary "Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne." This was created to sell arms wholesale to gun makers/gun marketers. The long-arms sold would have no markings from la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne.
D'après la photo des plats de canons, l'arme aurait été fabriquée entre 1926 (épreuve Manufrance) et 1931 (à partir de cette année, ce fusil sera estampillé "Costo" sous la bascule). Le fusil 250, Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne, est un modèle 20 Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne (période 1924/1931) ou bien un modèle 202 (période 1931/1939). From the photo of the barrel flats, the long-arm would have been made between 1926 (proved Manufrance) and 1931 (from this year the long-arm would be stamped "Costo" on the action). The arm "250" of "Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne," is a model 20 Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne from the périod 1924/1931), or a model 202 (1931-1939)
J'espère que vous parviendrez à comprendre ce que j'écris. I hope that you can understand what I've written.
Nous avons très bien compris Fab et merci comme d'habitude.
Last edited by Argo44; 08/22/21 10:32 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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I thought I might note this here for our small band of Manufrance aficionados.
Poked my head into a small gun shop about 45 min from my home last week. Used inventory way down. Not much in the way of SxS. A beat Ithaca. An even worse German cape gun. And what’s that over there? A pristine, late 1920’s I think, Manufrance Ideal double rifle in 450 NE! Wood was a little rough from being uncared for for 60 years but the metal appeared perfect.
I doubt I will be headed to Africa any time soon so to buy it seemed a bit extravagant. But I was glad to handle it. Never thought I would see one in NA.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Nice CB. Well I am in Africa right now...but not a place to use that gun...unless camels are game. What was the price out of curiosity?
Last edited by Argo44; 08/22/21 07:37 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Sidelock
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Wrong part of Africa Gene! Asking was $8000 Canadian. currently that’s $6200 USD and I suspect that price could be chiseled down significantly.
Last edited by canvasback; 08/22/21 07:40 AM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Sidelock
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would be a treat to see and handle....what was the weight of the gun? every ideal i've ever seen has been a light weight gun....can't wrap my head around something like that being possible for a big bore double rifle...
best regards, tom
"it's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." lewis carroll, Alice in Wonderland
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Sidelock
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would be a treat to see and handle....what was the weight of the gun? every ideal i've ever seen has been a light weight gun....can't wrap my head around something like that being possible for a big bore double rifle...
best regards, tom Of course it was an impromptu visit so I had neither a scale nor a tape measure. My 12 gauge 6R EE weights in at 6 pounds 13 oz with 29” barrels. And the stock is 14 1/4”. The double rifle had an LOP of at least 14” and barrels of at least 27 1/2”. They were longer than I would have guessed. And I’m not sure but I doubt the overall weight of the rifle was more than two pounds heavier than mine. So I’m guessing in the 9 pound plus range. No extra reinforcement of the action to handle the loads. The Ideal action is incredibly strong in its normal form. The only extra were two straps running back from the action on either side providing a little extra support for the top and bottom tangs. I would say it handled nicely but it’s only the second 450 NE SxS I’ve picked up so not much to compare it.
Last edited by canvasback; 08/22/21 05:45 PM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Anything like these? https://www.lauritz.com/en/auction/french-ideal-sporting-gun-calibre-12/i3425099/This from another site: According to Ideal book (p. 14) the following were standard calibers offered: 1887 (start date of Ideals) until 1897: "500 Express" (I strongly believe this is 500bpe or nitro for black, author gives the following ballistics: 570meters per second, charge with 9 grams of large black powder) 1897 to 1908: "Caliber 50" (maybe 500NE?) 1909: 450NE, "375 English" (2 1/2"), and 303 British (as is shown in the catalogue scans above) 1910: added 405 WCF 1911: 450NE dropped and 8mm Lebel added 1914: outbreak of WWI and double rifle Ideal manufacture stopped 1925: Recommence of manufacture of double rifle Ideals, in 8mm Lebel, 450 NE. 1931: reintroduction of 405WCF 1937: 8mm Lebel replaced by "375 magnum" (I assume the flanged H&H). 1939: outbreak of WWII double rifle manufacturing stopped for the last time. There were also custom orders for various calibers like: 8mm Lebel, 11mm Gras (the French service cartridge before the 8mm Lebel in the 1870s-80s), 6.5 Daudeteau, 11mm Werndl, 7.92 German, 6.5 Mannicher-Carcano, and 303 British. https://www.pmulcahy.com/single-shot-double_sporting_rifles/french_ss-d_spr.htm1910 Catalog:
Last edited by Argo44; 08/22/21 06:33 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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