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No pythons up here yet. But, I'm in E. Central Georgia.They are thriving in the sub-tropical climate of the Everglades, and maybe some other areas of S.Florida. I don't think they'd do as well up here. Then again, up until about thirty years go there weren't any armadillos here either. As aggravating as they are, I hope this climate and topography is better suited to armadillos than pythons.

They are making headway in reducing the numbers in the Everglades, albeit with great efforts. I read they caught one last year that was 18.9' in length.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
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We been gOOd little boys Stanley tell us the ground swatting story aigain....

Did your granpappy invent he live well ?

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Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
I got this TSS info straight from Apex ammo....

"A TSS #9 pellet weighs 1.2 grains. #9's are the perfect TSS pellet size. More energy than lead 4's and equal energy to hevi shot 5's."

When I mentioned that according to one of my handloading manuals a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains and lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains they went into a density tail spin....

I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me how a lighter pellet leaving the muzzle at the same velocity could have more energy than a heavier pellet....when I questioned them on that they wanted to claim the #9 was more aerodynamic.

Only thing harder than TSS is the peoples head that fell for it.

George what part of this can you not comprehend'a....


jOe, you blew off the aerodynamics part. Simplify it by thinking which you could hurt a turkey the most with if you threw it at him with all your might: a baseball or balloon? Just try'in to help you out there. Maybe next time we'll get into the hard part about weight and density...Geo

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I was assigned to CIA's Africa Division and posted to Morocco. We had venomous snakes, but they weren't a serious problem . . . although our gardener did find a pit viper in the backyard. I figured that was the embassy housing officer's problem. So I took the (dead) snake to work in a paper bag. Dumped it on his desk. In spite of which we remained friends.

Colleagues who'd been assigned sub-Sahara talked about places where everyone kept antivenin in the refrigerator. Black mambas being one of the major concerns.

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Originally Posted by Geo. Newbern
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
I got this TSS info straight from Apex ammo....

"A TSS #9 pellet weighs 1.2 grains. #9's are the perfect TSS pellet size. More energy than lead 4's and equal energy to hevi shot 5's."

When I mentioned that according to one of my handloading manuals a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains and lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains they went into a density tail spin....

I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me how a lighter pellet leaving the muzzle at the same velocity could have more energy than a heavier pellet....when I questioned them on that they wanted to claim the #9 was more aerodynamic.

Only thing harder than TSS is the peoples head that fell for it.

George what part of this can you not comprehend'a....


jOe, you blew off the aerodynamics part. Simplify it by thinking which you could hurt a turkey the most with if you threw it at him with all your might: a baseball or balloon? Just try'in to help you out there. Maybe next time we'll get into the hard part about weight and density...Geo

A baseball has quite a bit more mass and sectional density than a balloon Geo. The point jOe was making was about kinetic energy, and the fact that a lead #4 or even #7 shot pellet weighs more than ##9 TSS pellet. Certainly, the denser TSS sphere will retain velocity better, but the comparison is nothing like comparing retained velocity of a baseball vs. a balloon.

Tell us the kinetic energy of a 1.2 gr. TSS shot pellet hitting a turkey at 30 yards and the kinetic energy of a 3.3 gr. #4 lead pellet at the same range and the same starting muzzle velocity. The real advantage of the TSS appears to be velocity retention and mostly pattern density. We have seen evidence that #9 TSS will certainly kill a turkey, and so will #4 lead shot. You could also kill a turkey with a single fastball to the head. But you could throw a thousand balloons at the turkey without knocking a single feather loose. Nice try.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Using as a standard, where 1.25 oz. of #9 TSS and 1.25 oz. of #4 lead shot begin to decrease to 1.5” of penetration with an initial muzzle velocity of 1100 fps the comparison of individual pellet expressed in ft. lbs. and energy density expressed in ft. lbs. per square inch:
If in fact Apex stated that #9 TSS has the better energy than #4 lead per individual pellet travelling at same velocity, that would be incorrect. However, at 1100 fps, a load of 1.25 oz of #9 TSS has 1.5” of ballistic gel penetration at 58 yards with an individual pellet energy of .78 ft. lbs., but an energy density level of 155.4 ft. lbs/square inch because there are 446.74 pellets of TSS in the 1.25 oz. load.
1.25 oz. of #4 lead contains 167.32 pellets. At 1100 fps, it has gel penetration of 1.5” at 59.6 yards with a final velocity of 531 fps with 2.04 ft. lbs of energy per individual pellet, but an energy density of 153.7 ft. lbs. /square inch.
While a 1.25 oz. #4 lead load has individual pellet energy greater than 1.25 oz. of TSS #9, it doesn’t have greater energy density than TSS.
Calculations based on KPY Shotshell Ballistics program. https://kpyshotshellballistics.com/
Gil

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I've no experience with TSS shot, but from research conducted by my turkey hunting Friend, Buck Hamlin, pattern density is a more reliable killer of tom turkeys than shot size. Buck is a turkey fanatic and when I visited his shop some years ago he showed me his personal "research". On one wall of his shop were the neck vertebrae and skulls of all the gobblers he'd bagged to that point (he's added many more since); he'd cleaned all flesh from those bones and wired them together. As we visited he'd take down examples, pointing out and counting the shot holes in the bones; a couple of which showed two strikes, and his conclusion was that all that was required to kill a turkey was one pellet strike in the skull or neck vertebrae. So, and based on his personal research, he believed in pattern density and small shot; his favorite load at the time being hand a loaded 3" 12 gauge shell with 2 ounces of #8 shot. Buck is a tinkerer and for that season he was using an A-5 with a 3" chamber, and he'd modified the original barrel by installing one of his super tight choke tubes; he'd also installed a V-notch rear sight, which looked a bit odd as it was offset to the left side of the rib, but gave him the ability to consistently place the shot charge shot to shot. To prove the effectiveness of his modified Browning barrel, showed me a 40 yard pattern he'd fired with #8 shot; and 90% of the pattern could be covered with a ball cap! I don't think he uses the same gun year to year, but his weapon of choice is always something he's made or modified from muzzle loaders to vintage breech loaders; and they've all have been modified with super tight chokes designed to pattern effectively with #8 shot.

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Originally Posted by Geo. Newbern
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
Originally Posted by HomelessjOe
I got this TSS info straight from Apex ammo....

"A TSS #9 pellet weighs 1.2 grains. #9's are the perfect TSS pellet size. More energy than lead 4's and equal energy to hevi shot 5's."

When I mentioned that according to one of my handloading manuals a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains and lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains they went into a density tail spin....

I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me how a lighter pellet leaving the muzzle at the same velocity could have more energy than a heavier pellet....when I questioned them on that they wanted to claim the #9 was more aerodynamic.

Only thing harder than TSS is the peoples head that fell for it.

George what part of this can you not comprehend'a....


jOe, you blew off the aerodynamics part. Simplify it by thinking which you could hurt a turkey the most with if you threw it at him with all your might: a baseball or balloon? Just try'in to help you out there. Maybe next time we'll get into the hard part about weight and density...Geo

A baseball has quite a bit more mass and sectional density than a balloon Geo. The point jOe was making was about kinetic energy, and the fact that a lead #4 or even #7 shot pellet weighs more than ##9 TSS pellet. Certainly, the denser TSS sphere will retain velocity better, but the comparison is nothing like comparing retained velocity of a baseball vs. a balloon.

Tell us the kinetic energy of a 1.2 gr. TSS shot pellet hitting a turkey at 30 yards and the kinetic energy of a 3.3 gr. #4 lead pellet at the same range and the same starting muzzle velocity. The real advantage of the TSS appears to be velocity retention and mostly pattern density. We have seen evidence that #9 TSS will certainly kill a turkey, and so will #4 lead shot. You could also kill a turkey with a single fastball to the head. But you could throw a thousand balloons at the turkey without knocking a single feather loose. Nice try.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Pellets slow down in flight, due to friction with the air. Denser pellets retain speed better. So, the denser pellet will be traveling faster downrange than the less dense pellet, given the same muzzle velocity. That is why lead kills farther from the gun than steel, and why tungsten kills farther than lead.

I don't sell tungsten and I don't care if anyone buys it.


Caution: Hunting and fishing stories told here. Protective footgear may be required.
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Another property of tungsten vs. lead is its hardness which makes it suitable for use is in small sizes that wouldn't be considered in lead. Put a lead shot on an anvil and hit with a hammer. It deforms and doesn't spring back. Do the same with a tungsten shot. I don't know if it deforms temporarily, but it doesn't deform permanently. I've seen the largest wingbone on a gobbler shattered by a #9 tungsten super shot at 35 yards. I've seen complete pass throughs of turkey bodies with #9 TSS shot at distances under 40 yards. Density and hardness were the reasons solid tungsten rods were used in non-explosive sabot rounds to penetrate tank armor before depleted uranium was used. The hardness of TSS is one reason it patterns tightly even without buffer. I have purposely omitted buffer in some loads because of the extreme pattern tightness. Gil

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