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Originally Posted by Geo. Newbern
Originally Posted by Joe Wood
About the only ways I know to repair a worn bolt is to either have a new bolt made and fitted or to weld up the old bolt and refit it. Shims just don't work on bolts.

Mr. Wood, I don't doubt what you posted, but I've always had my off face guns repaired by shimming or welding the hook. Is there any reason that should not work?...Geo

In theory welding on the hook sounds good but in reality can the full roundness of the hook be maintained ?

Does the cross bolt bear any real load or was it just a selling point or was it a safety feature ?....I suspect more of a selling point.

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Stan,
I'm not sure if I am the Smith you are referring to or not but I will say when it is possible to replace the hinge pin it is my preferred method of putting a gun with a worn hook back on face. As others have pointed out, sometimes it is the bolt that needs attention and not the hook. I will weld a hook when needed but that is not my favorite way of approaching the issue. Many ways to skin a cat.
Steve


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

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What method have y’all found best to hold hook shim in place?


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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For a professional fix I've always had the hook TIG welded and filed back to fit. My field expedient measures have run from sticky backed air conditioning tape to newspaper. Newspaper does not last very long...Geo

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I’ve wondered if a low temperature solder paste would work to hold a thin shim in place. If so, the shim would be good for the rest of my lifetime or longer. I’ve had little luck with various types of super glue. The problem I’ve found with hiring a “professional” welding and refitting is invariably the surface contact is only about 10% to 30% on the hook. To check I take a Marks A Lot and blacken the repaired hook and reassemble and flex the action a number of times and then check the contact. Pathetic.


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I've posted this before on another thread but Permatex High Strength Automotive Grade Sleeve Retainer(NAPA # 765-1146) works extremely well in my experience for fixing a mild steel shim to the hook.

After fitting the shim to the hook degrease both the shim & the hook, apply a drop to the hook, put the shim in the hook then assemble the bbls & forend on the action & let it cure for 24 hours. Put some grease in the action mortise & on the sides of the lumps before assembly to assure that you can easily get the gun open if any excess sleeve retainer is squeezed out from the shim/hook joint.

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My German Gunsmith friend, Walter Grass replaced the hinge pin and refit the barrels for a permanent repair; but when a customer insisted, I have also watched him perform a temporary repair. His first step was to expand the hinge pin. He did this by taking both caps off and locking a correctly sized punch in the vise( to act as an anvil), then with help to hold the action, he expanded the pin using another punch and heavy hammer on the other end of the pin. He also peened the locking lug on the barrel with a flat faced punch working on the slanted rear face of the lug. Depending on condition, he would close the frame on the sides of the lugs. He did this by locking the frame in the vise( smooth jaws) and "shocking" it by hitting the fixed jaw with the heavy hammer. The most important part of this process is years of experience. It is not a long lasting repair and the customer must understand and agree that the process might damage the gun. I only watched this on drillings and other parts of the repairs do not apply to double barrel shot guns( tightening loose claw mounts). I forgot, he also stretched the forearm "iron" by peening it on the underside( hidden in the wood) with a punch that looked very much like a cold chisel that had been rounded and polished smooth.
Mike

Last edited by Der Ami; 08/01/21 11:31 AM.
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I had heard this technique was common in England also.

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There is one method to tighten loose barrels here that was used here often on cheap guns from the 1900 up to the end of WW 2, I did find a number of farm guns repaired using this method though asking friends today none have an example for me to photograph. The method was simple a dovetail slot was filed in the bottom of the barrel hook a piece of steel with the corresponding dovetail shape was slid in and hammered from each side to make the piece a permanent fit in the hook. Next the added piece was filed to the rough hook shape then slowly adjusted until the gun would close on face, I found this repair on a number of abused farm guns well into the 1970's and the guns still locked up tight enough though every other part was well past their use by date so the guns where scraped.
my preferred method is to shim the hook and if done correctly will last many many years. Joe wood suggested solder and the solder method I have used successfully for some fifty the last one being some three years back. I used quality steel shim stock failing that Automobile engine feeler gauges. I see people have used pieces of Aluminium or Steel cans both being extremely unsatisfactory Aluminium flows under pressure also it is soft enough to allow grit to be embedded in its surface making a permanent abrasive barrel hook to ware the knuckle hinge pin. can steel is also soft and will not keep up with the joint ware for a reasonable time.
My method is to first clean the barrel hook and hinge pin then cut a selection of shims, then add each in turn to tighten the action but try to keep it to no more than two. Now the solder I use is 60% Lead 40%Tin Plumbers type not the Electrical grade being 60%Tin 40% Lead being softer also solder paste I have found today available in 60%tin 40% Lead though on your side of the pond things may be different For good solder joints to Steel an "Active Flux" is by far the best active just meaning that it is acidic and must be washed of with water having a little soda added. I just make my own acidic flux by adding a few drops of Hydrochloric Acid to a small amount of the Rosin Flux keep this flux away from blued surfaces. To start I flux the barrel hook ware face then tin the whole surface, unless you are a miracle worker the solder always pools at the bottom of the hook so I wipe the hook with a dry cloth to remove as much solder as possible but if there is still a little left the final step will remove the excess solder. Now for the shim or shim if you need to use two shims allays place the thinnest shin to the barrel hooks surface with the thicker one on top, I do not recommend that you use a flame to tin the shims a soldering iron is far better and it wont over heat the thin shims then wash every thing well.
The simplest way to fit the shims of shim is a follows, place the shims across the hooks mouth and select a metal drill bit that is a good fit in the hook and will also push and hold the shin or shims in place. When you have selected the correct drill place the fluted end in a vice with the smooth chuck end sticking out of the vice to make a hanger for the barrel hook. Apply some flux to the shim and barrel hook mating surfaces (the use of active flux is now not necessary fit he shim shims in tho the hook and then hang on the drill, doing this will push and keep the shims in place in the hook. Heat gently until the solder runs the drill and the weight of the barrel will cause any excess solder in the joint to flow out of the joint then allow to cool, because of the harder type of shim stock I use i find a small diamond file is best to trim any excess shim. As the quality of engineers shim stock and feeler gauges this repair may out live tour good self, I am still using a gin with this type of hook repair I did some thirty years ago and the gun still locks up like a bank vault door. Give it a try though I will not be around in fifteen years for you to say if the repair lasted.


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Originally Posted by SKB
Stan,
I'm not sure if I am the Smith you are referring to or not but I will say when it is possible to replace the hinge pin it is my preferred method of putting a gun with a worn hook back on face. As others have pointed out, sometimes it is the bolt that needs attention and not the hook. I will weld a hook when needed but that is not my favorite way of approaching the issue. Many ways to skin a cat.
Steve

Actually you're not, Steve, was thinking of another. But, thanks for the comment. Now, I know two who think that way.


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