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Joined: Jan 2002
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Call Doug on Camera Land give him price range and purpose. I love good glass running minox, op and Leica. Jmho

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Call Doug on Camera Land give him price range and purpose. I love good glass running minox, op and Leica. Jmho

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Here's my thoughts on Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski after watching their products evolve over the years.

Zeiss at one time was no doubt the best in the world they seem like they've sacrificed trying to match the American market. In some instances the old Zeiss is better than the new Zeiss.

Leica makes the best range finders hands down...and I'm sure they make a fine camera but their hunting optics in my opinion rate right down there with Burris of old.

Swarovski on the other hand has saw nothing but improvement in their products over the years....older 40 to 50 year old Swarovski binoculars or scopes doesn't compare with the newer Swarovski products of the last 25 years.

Swarovski wins in the customer service department hands down...when I first bought my 8x30s they bounced off the dash of my 4x4 truck hit the console busted the adjustable eye cup. A short time later a new one arrived.
A short time ago time I called them wanting to purchase another lens cover for one of my scopes I purchased 20 plus years ago....he took my info down I asked him what form of payment do you take ? Free of charge....I said thanks. I went on to tell him the 1.25x4x30mm scope I have was discontinued 10 plus years ago and I'd like to buy another so I would have and extra lens cover in case they become unavailable....his reply no problem I'll send you two pair.

Over the years I've owned 2 pair of Zeiss a shirt pocket and a green rubber armored pair that I believe you could've dropped off the roof of a house....1 pair of Leicas 10x40 range finding (my 3-10x56 S&B scope showed detail clearer).....for the last 20 years I've owned 2 pair of Swarovski a shirt pocket 8x20 and an 8x30.

Swarovski till death do us part.

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OK gang- just got my damaged Burri 8x32 binocs fully replaced by Burris in CO. Just as with a Leupold scope, or a Redfield. So- I e-mailed Dave, and if he says OK- I'll list by Steiner 7X35 Military-Marine olive drab green binocs I bought 5 years ago-for some reason the Burris I had for 10 years split at the center hinge thingy so, The Steiners retail for aprox. $319.00 on Amazing-Zon-- Asking $185.00 prepaid, payment by USPS money order please, plus $10.00 shipping in Conus- 3 day inspection, return for full refund of your $185.00 if not right. send me a PMS if interested and of course, $12.00 to our host Dave-- RWTF.

Last edited by Run With The Fox; 07/19/21 01:09 PM. Reason: 7X35, NOT 8X35

When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8
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Just ran onto this subject. Hunting elk out here has always been an optical challenge. Besides the obvious need for a good riflescope, you spend lots of time scanning endless real estate to see if anything is either around you or hopefully, coming your way. Lots of time spent with binocs perched upon your nose, and on many days from dawn to dusk leads inevitably to significant eye strain. Good optics minimize that significantly. I've tried many options over the years, and had the opportunity to sample many of my buddies selections. The conclusion I came to is that you can't go very cheap here without having the consequence of very tired eyes at the end of the day. The best I've ever sampled were Leicas, followed fairly closely by newer Swarovskis. Bought some older Swarovskis on eBay that had some problems (about 20-years ago now), and when the lowlife I bought them from refused to make good on them I turned to Swarovski for help. Thankfully, Swarovski came through for me. As mentioned above, their customer service was (and hopefully still is) pretty spectacular. I know these are older models and I'm sure things have improved a bit, but they sure help me fill my freezer most years...
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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I know that newer and bigger is seen as better, but not when you're lugging them around all day. For weight and ease of use, these do it for me. FWIW: My buddy uses some comparable Steiners to good effect here as well.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 07/19/21 06:51 PM.
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Thanks, Lloyd- right on the money- I am loyal to Leopold optics, and now, with Burris standing behind 100% NQA their binocs-very impressive service. My daughters gave me the 8x32 Burris binocs about ten years ago-use them here for woodchucks, foxes, coyotes- but a while ago, they split right at the center folding hinge- I boxed them up, and used my Dad's Zeiss 7X50 pre-WW2 field glasses, as a fall back. But a while ago, at a Mom and Pop gun shop up North in Mi, I found the Steiners-- green coated Military-Marine 7x35, and bought them- they have helped me nail countless woodchucks and other varmints here, and have been with me twice to MT. Anyhow, I saw a Burris Ad in Sports Afield a while back stating they have a lifetime unlimited warranty, so I sent them back to Greeley Co--and today, Bingo, the box came via UPS--and I have a new pair, just like Leupold. I digress, but I am a firm fan of Leupold scopes- why?? when I bought my SakoL579 Pre-Garcia .243Win, my numero uno woodchuck devastator, it had a fixed Power Leupold 6X X40mm- I later moved that to a /22 Ruger BA (squirrel gun) and replaced it with with a 2x7 Vari-X 11--used, but like new, as are the Steiner 7X35 binocs--somehow the crosshairs on that Leupold scope shifted out of alignment, so I sent it back to the factory with a note- Two weeks later Leupold sent me a band new upgraded replacement scope- a 4X12 VariX 111 with parallax adjustmentand 50MM bell, which has been on my Sako ever since. So, from personal experience, I'll vouch for Leupold, Redfield and now Burris--Looking at a pre-1950 M70 Super Grade in .300Win Mag- has original iron sights, and a Weaver 2x with the German style picket post on the cross hairs, in a Williams adjustable base mount- very clean, and it comes with 10 full boxes of 180 grain handloads, fire formed to that rifle's chamber. If I buy it, which I think I may well do, I can also buy from the same dealer a Kahles (Austrian?) 3x9 scope, which I would use on this .300 Mag-- what can you tell me, amigo, about Kahles-?? RWTF


When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8
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Great sounding Super Grade btw. From what I've seen of it I like the Kahles stuff, no question. For the money, seemingly hard to beat. I am far-more familiar with the more-standard $$$ Leupold options however. Use a fixed 6x42 on my .300 Weatherby and am nothing but happy with it (great eye-relief and light gathering, & incredible clarity still after all these years). I have heard tell that Leupold isn't what it used to be, but have no personal experience with that.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 07/19/21 06:34 PM.
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Years ago I was outfitting myself for yearly javelina hunts in AZ, hours of glassing hillsides a few miles away. I found Minox optics to be a good balance of performance vs. price. I still have tripod mounts 15x60 binocs and a compact spotting scope.

For Eastern deer hunters try and find a pair of their 6x30 rubber armored IF binocs. Simply wonderful glass for less than $200, the come up on eBay occasionally. Doug couldn't keep them in stock. to this day I use them here in NY when 6x is plenty.


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Thanks Lloyd- only thing I will have to replace on that SG .300Win Mag- is the red recoil pad- the original is brick hard--not a biggie, nor a deal breaker. Believe this M70 is a "transitional" series, as it has the early series shaped "cloverleafed" top tang, but the 3 position safety has the later side orientation. Only ? I have about the Kahles is, being made in a metric based county, would the tube be a 30MM instead of a 1.00", as the present Weaver scope has- guess I'd better bring along a set of verniers--hard to pass this older M70 up with the ammo shortage, like to use it for elk or moose- nothing wrong with my 1939 M70SG in 30-Gov't-06 (Thanks, Dad) but the .300 Win Mag has a flatter trajectory than either the 30-06, or the .308 Win.


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Not certain but I'd guess the Kahles is likely 30mm. Shot a LH Rem 700 BDL .30-06 for many years but went to the magnums for the flatter trajectory as well. Days to hunt got shorter and shots got longer. Might be kidding myself but... it seemed to work out alright.

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