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3 members (smlekid, SKB, 1 invisible),
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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 236
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 236 |
And here i thought you switched to Geico.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 313
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 313 |
Certainly Doug. However, my increasingly squishy brain needs to focus on one issue at a time in order to understand it 
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 227 |
dbadcraig:
I usually don't trust web sources without a text, but that is interesting. So, would you say that cast iron barrels were being rifled in Vienna late in the 15th century?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse Raimey- I have my BA in History and have been a practicing attorney many years (and outside of the Bible, which is another topic as this involves faith) I wouldn't trust any single source of information for anything! However, the materials I quoted rang true with my schooling, which is why I selected that quoted material. As for who was rifling what in Vienna, I will leave that for someone else to tackle. Doug
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
revdocdrew:
Once again, nice post. And look in that we have come full circle and are importing scatterguns from Turkey, the once region of sought after barrels, once again.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,775 Likes: 183 |
dbadcraig:
I don't dispute it at all. I have had the pleasure of being crossexamined by several of your profession and know that you wouldn't ask a question(or make a statement) to which you don't already know the answer. Thanks again.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 10/05/07 11:42 PM.
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Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
The German blade smiths have done a lot of study into the history and making of damascus. While we currently seem to be lacking extentive documentation, there had to be German barrel makers producing damascus tubes. For some interesting reading: http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/articles/serpent/serpent.htmlalso http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/kap_5/advanced/t5_1_1.htmlThis is a close up of a pattern welded spearhead circa 800 AD  A blade with pattern welding, circa 1700-1800  Another good source for following the middle eastern theme is Robert Elgood, "Firearms of the Islamic World: in the Tared Rajab Museum, Kuwait". The Victoria and Albert Museum in England have held exhibits of oriental, Persian, Indian, Ottoman firearms. Some are exquisite examples of pattern welded damascus. This same museum has a large collection of iron work from around the world. I remember Oscar mentioning the importance of blacksmiths working with structural and decorative iron. The source was one he uncovered at the university library. I tried to obtain a copy and was stumped. I spoke to him on the phone about it and he just laughed. The "book" was an old doctoral thesis on file there. I guess it helps to be a university professor.  Pete
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Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
That bottom one has the same pattern as my Oriental rug.....I can see it now.
In 1810 the Maharaja flew to England on his Magic carpet to meet the best gun maker in England....
Joseph Manton along with the young Purdey and Boss were so inspired by the beautiful pattern on his Magic carpet that they decided to use it in the pattern of their Damascus shotgun barrels.
I'll take tWo bushels.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 227 |
....likely not too far from the truth, except the magic carpets were sail, then later steam!
The cultural and economic exchange was going on through the East India Company starting in the 1600s. For centuries, England being an island nation of sea faring traders had unrivaled access to world markets.
No doubt commerce, particularly with the older civilizations such as India included the exchanges of ideas and technology not just raw materials.
Even without the possible technological underpinnings, "British Orientalism" and the oriental esthetic may have influenced the barrel patterns. During the time-frame in question (circa 1800s), oriental themes and tastes (e.g., carpets, tea and fine china) were high fashion.
Doug
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
Only having a MA in American political history, I don't know a lot about the "ancient" world but I'd bet the fascination with Chinoisserie is a late development in cultural and technological co-optation. Think the Crusades and the caravan routes provided the big chances for window shopping the East. BICBW.
jack
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 313
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 313 |
Someone please save me from myself 'Crolle' pattern Mina Khani design in rugs from Bijar, Baluch, and Ferahan http://www.oldcarpet.com/rug_glossary.htm  Bakhshaish from Iranian Azerbaijan  Similar to 'Rose Pattern' Bernard II 
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