March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
7 members (jake van dyke, HalfaDouble, dogon, Ian Forrester, Mills, 1 invisible), 551 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,009
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#596649 05/07/21 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
Hello gentlemen:

Tomorrow I will have the oportunity to shoot with a 475 A&M rifle.
For what I saw in Internet it is an overpowered caliber generating around 10,000 ft-lb of energy.
I am a tall skinny 60 years old men: 6-2 tall and 148 lb weight, so I have some concerns about shooting such a big cartdige.

Do you think it could be dangerous to shoot it, like retine damage or a broken bone?

Any good advise?

Best,

Jose


Jose M. Fernandez
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
How much does the gun weigh? If it weighs less than 10 lbs., I recommend you pass. Even at 10 lbs. it will hit youlike George Foreman. I shot a Weatherby .460 twice one time in my 30's, and it probably weighed around 9 lbs. Knocked slobber from my mouth. Have fun?

https://www.fieldandstream.com/hardest-kicking-rounds-all-time/

JR

Last edited by John Roberts; 05/07/21 01:13 PM.

Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 397
SKB Online Content
Sidelock
***
Online Content
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 397
10lbs? heck no, that thing should weogh maybe 16-20 lbs. A .577 3" at a bit over 7k ftlbs should come in around 14lbs.

10k ft lbs of energy is twice what is considered plenty enough for Elephants.


http://www.bertramandco.com/
Booking African hunts, firearms import services

Here for the meltdowns
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,522
Likes: 167
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,522
Likes: 167
I would shoot it standing and with a PAST shoulder recoil pad.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002531259

Good luck

Mike

Last edited by skeettx; 05/07/21 02:19 PM.

USAF RET 1971-95 [Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 122
Likes: 23
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 122
Likes: 23
I think it was Paul that told me that when he and Bill Atkinson were developing these big cartridges, Paul, Bill and Fred Wells would go out to Wikiup, AZ and shoot donkeys to see how they performed.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Watch these and decide Jose. Pero, no lo olvides - "Cuando entra la bebida, la sabiduría se va." wink






Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,081
Likes: 332
Originally Posted by SKB
10lbs? heck no, that thing should weogh maybe 16-20 lbs. A .577 3" at a bit over 7k ftlbs should come in around 14lbs.

10k ft lbs of energy is twice what is considered plenty enough for Elephants.

Steve
According to that article I linked by Dave Petzal, the .475 A&M “only” has around 8,000 ft/lbs of energy. I also doubt any bolt gun, which I feel pretty sure the piece he’ll be shooting will be, will weigh anywhere near 16, much less 20, lbs, unless it is some odd bull barrel bench gun. If it is a hunting gun, expect 12 lbs at best. I would shoot it @ 12 lbs.

I doubt it would hurt much more than when I simultaneously lit off 2 short magnum turkey loads of 1 1/2 oz. each in a 7 lb Sauer one fine Spring morning. Lost my sense of smell for a few minutes...
JR

Last edited by John Roberts; 05/09/21 10:46 AM.

Be strong, be of good courage.
God bless America, long live the Republic.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
From Wikipedia...

475 A&M Magnum
Type Rifle
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designed 1958-9
Specifications
Parent case .378 Weatherby Magnum
Bullet diameter .475 in (12.1 mm)
Neck diameter .502 in (12.8 mm)
Shoulder diameter .560 in (14.2 mm)
Base diameter .584 in (14.8 mm)
Rim diameter .533 in (13.5 mm)
Case length 2.90 in (74 mm)
Overall length 3.75 in (95 mm)
Rifling twist 1:14
Primer type Boxer large rifle
Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
400 gr (26 g) 3,227 ft/s (984 m/s) 9,034 ft⋅lbf (12,248 J)
500 gr (32 g) 2,980 ft/s (910 m/s) 9,900 ft⋅lbf (13,400 J)
600 gr (39 g) 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s) 8,040 ft⋅lbf (10,900 J)
Source(s): Barnes & Amber

The rifle is a Mauser bolt action and weights 11 lbs
I only hope that my friend reloaded the cartdiges much lower than the full charges described!

Regards,


Jose M. Fernandez
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,169
Likes: 35
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,169
Likes: 35
I’ve shot stopping rifles in .577 and own .416’s and .460’s. I’ve also have shot the big 10’s. These days I’m not so keen on pulling the trigger on “full house” monster loads. Could be a low “T” sort of thing or perhaps..... I finally wised up!😀


Dodging lions and wasting time.....
1 member likes this: John Roberts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1127
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1127
Don't be overly concerned about your size, as pertaining to shooting big loads. The less your mass the more the gun will move you. The more you move the less you will feel recoil. I'm your height and a few pounds heavier. I would shoot the .475 A & M in a heartbeat, offered the chance.

This is just my opinion, others will differ.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 17
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by skeettx
I would shoot it standing and with a PAST shoulder recoil pad.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002531259

Good luck

Mike


I wear a PAST pad when benching anything over .22-250.
One can focus totally on breathing and squeezing, because there is no discomfort.


“When faith is lost, when honor dies, the man is dead” - John Greenleaf Whittier
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
Sidelock
***
OP Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
Hello everybody:

This is an update of my experience shooting the 475 A&M.

I made 3 shots, two of them with a "reduced" charge (458 Lott power, 500 grains bullet @ 2,250 fps). I can not say that the kick was pleasant, but completly tolerable; then I shot a full load with a 600 grain solid bullet at 2,500 fps: I inmediately lost interest in shooting another one! The kick is "brutal" to say something.
Of course my son, that is 20 year old, shot about 10 times with both charges and return home very happy for the experience.
I am very happy also for the oportunity to shot such a big cartdige (many thanks to my friend Eric).

I think Stanton is completly right: for what I can saw in the videos we took and for the comments, our "heavy weighted" friends were hited worst than my son and myself that are "light weighted" and more "flexible".

Overall a great experience, thank you for all your comments and advise!

Best,

Jose


Jose M. Fernandez
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,444
Likes: 204
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,444
Likes: 204
I had wondered if you gave it a go. Good for you and thanks for the follow up comment.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Years ago, for a African hunt which never happened, I shot a lot of 375 and 458 in Winchester model 70’s. So much 458 that I developed a flinch that became so bad I had to stop all shooting for over a year. Then it was waiting for me when I returned. Ended up shooting .410 using my left shoulder, for several years. It was five years before I could shoot right handed without flinching, for the most part. I still will flinch once in a few hundred times. At my peak it was three out of four shots. And that was 40 years ago so when the chance comes along to shoot a doomsday stomping rifle I am not tempted.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
"The gun-nerd site Forgotten Weapons has offered up a glimpse of the bane of 19th Century elephant hunters: the dreaded 4-bore. It chucks a one-inch quarter-pound ball (1,750 grains). Frederick Courteney Selous used a 4-bore muzzleloader in the 1870s. It got the job done, but Selous complained that the brutal recoil upset his nerve. It’s certainly a flinch-inducer."

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

From recall, he killed a lot of elephants with a four bore...then accidentally double loaded a barrel. He developed a flinch he could never quite get rid of.

My son in Alaska was urged to carry a big bore revolver with recoil so heavy you couldn't control it and still not enough thump to stop a black bear let alone a Brown or Grizzly. I got him to carry a Glock 19, with 15 9mm penetrating rounds. Controlled firepower baby....15 rounds in 1.5 seconds has to be better. Maybe you'll luck out and hit a vital. A guy in Alaska makes a 147 grain 9mm penetrating round for such an event.
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alaska-man-kills-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/

Last edited by Argo44; 05/10/21 09:26 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
I killed a Brown bear, with a .270, 30 plus years ago. Was hunting moose and came across a Brown bear with inflamed hemorrhoids. At least that is what it seemed like at the time. He charged and I responded. I killed the bear at less than 20 yards, with a single shot from my .270. Went right into his left eye and into his brain. Lights out. I was 100% lucky. Being a young fool, from back east, I had my scope cranked up to its highest power when I was walking through the bush. You try finding a Brown bear at 100 feet that is charging you, with a scope cranked up to high power. It was all a blur until I recognized an eye ball. Then I shot him. It took me ten minutes to stop shaking enough, to light a cigarette. I had no choice but to shoot him. Buddy was off looking for a Brown bear, I was after a moose. He claimed this one on his tag. Funny thing is my buddy recounts the story and he is now the shooter, not me. Wish he had the nightmare I had for a few days. Being close to becoming bear scat is not fun and unless you see it for yourself you just can not believe how fast a brown bear can move. Never did get that moose. That 9mm might slow him down but i would rather skip ever finding out myself and hope you boy does as well.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134
Likes: 309
It seems that all conversations in Alaska (per son...never been there) is about bears and fish. The violence and utter suddenness of a bear attack apparently is astonishing. That's why the 9mm carry. At least you might get it out and put a few shots in. (A guy was killed by a black bear where he stayed last summer - he was walking around with nothing but a knife and all Alaska was armed). The story of your Brown-bear attack though is what it is all about. great tale....and sorry for the trembling hand the next day with the coffee. Felt kind of like that once 55 years ag0..oh well.

Last edited by Argo44; 05/10/21 10:23 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1127
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1127
I am personal friends with a lady from Alaska that hunts and guides other hunters in the bush. She kills bears with pistols, intentionally. Her name is Brenda Crim. She stated that all her bears (five at that time.... four grizzlies, one black) had been killed at twenty yards or less. I asked her if that had been intentional. She said she stalks to within that distance before shooting. I asked her why and she said because it is imperative to put the bullet in exactly the right spot. She has three pistols .......... her first was a .44 magnum. Her second was a .454 Casull. Her latest is a .500 S & W. Brenda is 62, a pretty, petite lady that you would never expect to do this, upon meeting her. She has a bush plane drop her off, alone, in the wilderness and return for her some week to ten days later.

My wife asked Brenda if she ever got scared of being killed by one of those grizzlies. She just smiled and said "Honey, it's Brenda 5, bears 0. If the bears score one point, I'll be telling the story of my demise in heaven. At least I'll have an interesting story to tell, and not that I died flat on my back in some nursing home."

Brenda is the real deal, and a fascinating person to talk with. http://www.akmissions.com

IDK, but if a little lady like Brenda can learn to handle the recoil of a .500 S & W most any motivated man could too.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 17
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
IDK, but if a little lady like Brenda can learn to handle the recoil of a .500 S & W most any motivated man could too.


Back in my 20s I taught about a dozen women to shoot handguns.
The majority handled full house .44 mag by the end of the first session.
I always started with .22, of course, and simply moved up in power to .22 mag, .38 spl wadcutters, etc., thru .45 acp and finally .44 spl and mag.
I never told them what they were shooting, just handed them a different handgun; at the end they were uniformly stunned that they had been happily DA shooting a .44 magnum.
Women generally have no preconceived notions about guns and don’t imagine themselves to be instant Dirty Harry, so they listen and learn.


“When faith is lost, when honor dies, the man is dead” - John Greenleaf Whittier
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693
Likes: 450
I think it was Elmer Keith who remarked big bullets did not make up for bad bullet placement. He was a big bullet, big bore handgun aficionado. There was a story of a lady who killed an extremely large grizzly bear with a .22 LR. Seems the bear was about to get into her laundry hanging outside when she saw him. Shot him right out the window. Head shot went right into the brain, dead bear. Don’t mess with a lady on laundry day.

My shot was 100% luck. Think about hitting a silver dollar, moving right at you, at 30 yards, in a bears eye location, with the head moving all around, with a rifle sighted to shoot an inch high at 100 yards. I’d bet on the bear nine times out of ten. Ten out of ten times except I got lucky. The other mistake was to be so under-gunned. That was of a misspent youth reading Jack O’Connor writing about how wonderful the .270 was. Being young and impressionable off I went into the Alaska bush with my mighty .270. In hind sight I was more Elmer Fudd than anything else but a least I was luckier than Wiley Coyote. My gun was a Model 70 not one made by Acme Co..

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 378
I have an old friend who loves shotguns, rifles and handguns that hit very hard at both ends. Everything had to be a magnum on steroids. He was the kind of guy who started handloads at the maximum load, and worked his way up from there until he saw very real signs of excess pressure. He blew up his older brother's Benelli Autoloader with some crazy handloads, and I have fired some of his revolvers that bruised my hand and left my fingers bleeding from under my fingernails after shooting them one-handed. But one night years ago, he met his match from the recoil of a .22 rimfire rifle.

A bunch of us were at camp for a weekend of ruffed grouse and squirrel hunting. At the time, I had a modest collection of around twenty rimfire boys rifles, such as Stevens Favorites and Crackshots, Remington rolling blocks, Hamilton bicycle rifles, H&R falling blocks, Floberts, etc. I had just purchased a Stevens No. 14 1/2 Little Scout .22LR, and as an afterthought, tossed it in the truck to try out at camp that weekend.

On Saturday evening after dinner, we were playing poker and enjoying some adult beverages, and the conversation turned to guns and the subject of recoil in particular. My friend flatly stated that the only gun that has no recoil is a .22 rimfire. I replied that was foolish nonsense, and that he had taken too many math and physics courses to make such a dumb statement. I recited Newton's Third Law, but he insisted I was wrong, and an argument ensued. I bet him $10.00 that he was wrong, and he accepted, and we shook hands on it. Then he asked, "How are you going to prove it?"

I said, "I don't know...", and then I remembered bringing along that Stevens No. 14 1/2 Little Scout. Now, the Little Scout No. 14 1/2 is a very small and light rifle, even by Boys Rifle standards. One reference I found says that the Stevens No. 14 Little Scout with a full stock weighs only 2 1/2 pounds, and I'd say the No. 14 1/2 with the two piece stock is probably a couple ounces lighter. I grabbed the rifle and some standard velocity shells, and said, "Let's go out back... I'm sure you will feel the recoil with this."

We all went out behind the camp, and I chambered a round and handed him the gun. He put it to his shoulder and proceeded to cock the hammer. I said "Wait a minute... put the butt on your chin." He said, "No problem", and placed the slender and unforgiving little steel buttplate firmly on his chin, and cocked it again. I stopped him a second time and said, "No, wait... hold it so the buttplate is about a 1/4 inch away from your chin." He smugly said, "No f**king problem."... and he moved the buttplate a bit away from his chin, and cocked and fired.

Instantly, he nearly dropped the rifle, and grabbed his face, and cried out in a muffled voice, "My chin!.. I broke my f**king chin." In my kind sympathetic manner, I said, "You owe me ten bucks... pay up!"

Of course, he didn't really break his chin bone, but he certainly did not wish to try the physics experiment again. Even with the low recoil energy of a .22 rimfire, I'm sure getting smacked with that skinny steel butplate felt like getting rapped on the chin with a ball peen hammer. There is a lot more to felt recoil than just the absolute number of foot/pounds of recoil energy.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

1 member likes this: Hoot4570
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.120s Queries: 58 (0.093s) Memory: 0.9277 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 19:45:00 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS