doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Interesting 1903 Kornbrath engraved, Wibener stock

On auction at Morphy's:

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com...SPRINGFIELD_1903_BOLT_ACT-LOT502354.aspx

Looks like “ S-Man” has been identified. Anyone here ever heard of Wibener?

Newton1131
Good catch,
Mike

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=249952#Post249952

Micheal was aware of this but as far as I know, didn't turn much up about it.

The stock work on the rifle Michael shows in photo #2 bears great resemblance to the Morphy auction rifle. It's not the same rifle but I had to look back and forth a time or two to confirm that.

The gun for sale is no 4 in Michaels thread. He did a lot of research on the names given him by the 2 guys who owned this rifle as each seemed to spell it differently. I had seen the rifle many times but was never able to see the markings in the barrel channel.

Not one of Kornbrath's finer engraving jobs, if in fact it is his work. IMO

I agree. In fact, IF it truly is Kornbrath’s work, that’s the WORST example I’ve ever seen!

How can you tell from these pictures it's difficult to see any detail in the engraving

I’ve owned quite a few examples of Kornbrath’s work and studied many, many more. It’s amazing how much engraving is attributed to him that he never touched.

I’m certainly no expert but what about the ‘engraved by kornbrath Hartford ct’ on the floor plate? Is that typical of his work?

The problem I see with the engraving is that the execution of the scrolls and animal is lifeless, not anything like his better work. He did not sign all his work, as I understand, and would most likely sign his better pieces.

So I am saying choose for yourself.

I get it, just trying to learn. Intriguing subject. Interesting rifle although out of my price range.

This thread went downhill in a hurry. How about expanding our knowledge of Kornbrath with a series of photographs explaining the faked up Kornbrath guns. A good start would be pictures of Griffin and Howe guns from the early days that Michael Petrov opined that most if not all engraved guns were done by Kornbrath. Thanks for the education. What happened to the "Kornbrath Files" that Michael apparently donated to the Cody museum? Are they available for research? I remember seeing those documents for sale at the Baltimore Show in the early sixties. Wow, that was what, sixty years ago? I was interested in them but the price was a little high for someone interested more in Parker shotguns than engraver history. I assume they went through several hands before getting to Michael. Were these early Griffin and Howe guns signed by Kornbrath or just identified by "style" and "excellence"?

Rudolph Kornbrath

G&H Kornbrath

Kornbrath Winchester

And there are many many more.

Here are some pictures I received from Dan asking me to post them for him:

His comment: "Here are a couple photos of my engraved Sman if you would like to post them to the forum Sman thread."

I agree with the above. The animal depictions are near Winchester 1950's in quality,,and that has often been described as cartoonish.
The scroll style is one he often cut but this example is not nearly as detailed and shaded as profusely as his normally seen work.
The edge simple clean line borders are not so much that and they are very wide unlike the very narrow ones he used when done so.

The stick lettered name placed in the border strikes me as an after thought of another engraver or on the orders of an owner trying to 'upgrade' what they had.

Look at some of Kornbrath's signitures on his work, they alone are works of art.

There's more work around signed and or attributed to Kornbrath and a few other well knowns than any could have done in 3 lifetimes.
Copying old work is no great trick, it's been done for centuries.
Oh,,the piece is Signed by the engraver ??,,How many do you want...

Thanks Kutter for lending your expertise.
In faked art it is often the brush strokes that distinguish between the real and the fake, "full of life" vs "Mechanical". I believe the "brush strokes" (engraver cuts) are just "Mechnical" in this work.

Is the springfield photo supposed to be a kornbrath engraved gun?

DanL can you answer the above question?
I believe the answer is going to be yes but not sure what provenance he has. I believe Michael P also had input on this rifle back in this thread:
Rifles

I tend to agree that the engraving on the Auction gun does not look up to Kornbrath standards. Animal appears to be a cross between a bear and porcupine. Also keep in mind Michael wrote that all the S-man rifles he had seen were stocked in American Black Walnut. Does someone who tries to save a few bucks on wood really send a rifle to Kornbrath for engraving? I have no idea, just speculating. Maybe he had another reason to use Black Walnut, maybe he just liked it, maybe he had a good supply of it. We may never know, nice rifle but I can't see it being a $10,000 rifle.

Best,
John

Gasgunner, a question if I can, do you think the auction rifle if Black Walnut? I don't see it as so, however I am only guessing here. One other thing, the floral stock carving is rather detailed and I wonder if one can carve BW to that detail without chipping. I am not a carver but speculating from looking at other carving on stocks.

DanL, what is the stock wood on your rifle?

The engraving on my rifle is said to be by Kornbrath but I am no expert on engraving. The gun is also rather beat up and the TG & FP may have been refinished at some time which makes the engraving look funny. I think I have seen the bear with two cubs on another rifle that was described as Kornbrath.
As for the wood, I'm pretty sure it is American walnut, I will take a picture of the butt end which is fancy grained. The forend sure looks American. The checkering pattern is very plain and without the hump at the comb and I only have one other Sman '03 without the hump and that is the full stocked one and I consider those two to be some of his earliest guns. The Ross Sman rifle also is without the hump.

I believe it is, and not quarter sawn to boot. Looks like something Remington would have used on there higher grade bolt guns.

John

Dan's rifle stock. Dan says it is Black Walnut

The rifle which is the subject of this posting sold today for $6500. A decent price but not a WOW price and may indicate some questioning of it's authenticity. IMO

Of interest, at the same auction and maybe in comparison ,was a Model 54 Winchester in 405 Win which went for $5500 and a Mod 70 in the same 405 Win sold for $18000. Not surprising but it does indicate the buyers at the auction were willing to spend for the good items.

I doubt that the rifle sold as that is no where near the amount that the owner says that he has in it. In fact the first time he had it at Morphy, it ended at a higher price than this.

I was going by what it said in Proxibid, that it sold onsite. However your saying that it didn't really sell because the $6500 was below the reserve. Well that certainly could be, however if the seller has tried to sell it twice without success then even more reason to believe it is a tainted rifle and one to pass on.