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The charge card for my 1885 10 bore specifies Curtis and Harvey No. 4. What would be the modern Goex equivalent?

Thanks.

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I bet you can get 1&1/2 F Olde Eynsforde to work out for you.


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LGF: What SKB says. Olde Eynsford 1.5FG is pretty much the best modern equivalent to the old rifle powders. Swiss 1.5 is really nice too, just more expensive


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Thanks Steve and pamtnman.

This weekend I chronographed a dozen 10 bore 3.5 and 4 dram loads with 1.25 and 1.5 oz shot, trying both Goex F and FF in RMC shells with lubed fiber wads. The Pro Chrono works fine for nitro loads but I got nonsensical readings for half the BP shots; the other six were in the 950-1000 fps range, with loads that should yield around 1200.

Two questions: 1) I have not found instructions for chronographing BP shotgun loads and would be grateful for advice; and

2) given the poor reliability, I have no idea if the 950-1000 readings are accurate. If they are, could the low speed be a result of using Goex rather than a higher grade BP?

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This does not address your question, but should be of interest
1896 Rules of Proof Black and Nitro powder Service and Proof Charge Pressures
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA296&dq

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Curtis & Harvey “T.S.” (Treble Strong) No. 6 (84 grain = 3 Dr. Eq.) was coarse Black Powder somewhat similar (but not equivalent) to Fg.
“T.S.” was developed in 1871 for the .577/450 Boxer-Henry cartridge used in the Martini-Henry rifle. It was a precursor to “R.F.G.2” (Rifled Fine Grain 2) manufactured at the Royal Gunpowder Mills, Essex, adopted in 1873.
C&H, “T.S.” No. 4 (82 gr. = 3 Dr. Eq.) medium grain similar to FFg
C&H, “T.S.” No. 2 (72 gr. = 3 Dr. Eq.) fine grain similar to FFFg.

Sporting Guns and Gunpowders, “Tests Of Strain On Breech Actions”, 1892
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dram Bulk Smokeless Pressures in 2 3/4” case
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA86
Long Tons/ sq. inch converted to PSI by Burrard’s formula
(Proof) with 6 1/4 Drams “Tower Proof” Black Powder and 1 2/3 oz. shot – 4.51 Tons = 14,034 psi
3 1/2 Drams Curtis & Harvey’s No. 4 T.S. Black Powder – 4.2 Tons = 12,992 psi
“Schultze” – 4.28 Tons = 13,260 psi

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I've never done it, but when I was reading Sherman Bell's articles regarding his testing of black powder loads he mentioned having to make some sort of cardboard shield with a small hole cut into it that he fired this loads through before they passed through the chrono. There is so much ejecta with a blackpowder load that it would cause havoc with the chronograph, like you found.

Unfortunately I don't remember any specifics such as distance to the cardboard shield or the shield's distance to the chrono, and he might not have given any.

Might be a starting spot for some experimentation though.


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It's not that difficult.

Pick a day when there's some wind.

Place the chrono about 6 feet away, at right angles to the wind.

Done.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Use a baffling board and set your chronograph about six feet away is the only way I was able to measure black powder loads. To check my results I shot a couple smokeless loads I had previously tested across the same setup for comparison. If a 1200 FPS read 1090 FPS in my new setup I knew the black loads were most likely understated a bit as well. Mine were about 10% understated but yours may vary.

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Thanks very much for all the advice. I got the expected results when firing 1200 fps smokeless loads so don't know how to interpret the results from the 50% of BP loads that produced any data at all. Jon, not sure what you mean by a baffling board - similar to the shield mentioned by Flintfan?

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Eynsford should work fine, but is significantly more expensive than Goex or Schutzen, or Graff (current Goex, used to be Schutzen) if you can get it. If you're going through a pound or two a year it's not an issue, but I go through a can in a week or ten days during the summer, and I find that Schtuzen, Goex, and Kik (when it was available) all worked fine for shotgun (I've connect on a website with people who swear by skirmish powder for shotgun). For match shooting with a rifle, I would go right to Swiss or Eynsford.

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