doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com More questions on ammo for combination gun

I have a super nice krieghoff 12 gauge over 7-65r. Gun was built in mid 80’s and has a zeiss 2,5-10-48 scope with claw mounts on it.

I am currently using 160 Norma tip strike factory ammo in the gun.

I am having 2 issues:

I am having a hard time keeping the gun sighted in. I don’t beat the gun up and it always rides in a padded case. I never take the scope off the gun.

Secondly, the 2nd rifle shot is 3-4 inches higher than the 1st and the 3rd is often off the target.

I thought this was normal until I shot with my friend yesterday who has a blauser combination gun. Using the same ammo, his 1st 2 shots were touching at 100 yards.

The barrel size and rib on the 2 guns look very close to the same size.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Could it be the forearm?

We were shooting off the same rest.

243ackley,
You didn't post photos of your and your friend's guns, so this is speculation. A combination gun that has the barrels soldered together may act like yours as a result of one barrel heating up and lengthening while the other barrel does not. Some Krieghoff drillings have "free floating" rifle barrel, but I don't know about the O/Us. The maker of your friend's gun is known for making their products with a "free floating" barrel, to avoid this. This problem is more severe with SXS combination guns than O/U. The answer is when sighting your rifle in, to let it cool to ambient temperature between shots. As a hunting rifle, it is not important that it shoot a small 5 shot group with out cooling. What is important is that it put the first shot where it should, every day. The 7x65R is a world class cartridge and you are not likely to need a second shot. If the animal doesn't "fall at the shot" you aren't likely to be able to reload in time to get a second shot off. If you have the time, in the off season, and range facilities, it is good to sight the rifle in by firing one shot each day( not absolutely necessary if you let it cool). Of course this assumes the scope and mounts aren't defective in anyway.
Mike

Letting them cool is the key as per Der Ami.

My two coyote hunting combination guns
6.5x58R Sauer/16ga/16ga drilling with Leupold 1-4 scope letting it cool, kind of a rainbow trajectory but plunks them into the same spot.


BRNO combination 5.6x52R(22 Savage Highpower) 1.5-4.5 Nikon Monarch


Deer rifle, JP Sauer 7x57R/16ga/16ga with Weaver K-1.5 at 100yards


I had a Marrochi combo gun with separate barrels that would shoot sub MOA 5 shot groups without waiting, never found that to be an advantage and it is down the road killing turkeys and coyotes on a regular basis for someone else.

Oskar,
Refresh my memory, I remember you use 9.3x72R donor cases, but don't remember if your groove diameter is .260 or .264" ( the question pertains to the 6.5x58R S&S drilling). If .260", do you size .264" bullets, or do you have a source? Since I use original length .38-55 cases, a .264" bullet "falls" into a fired case. I make an exception to the general "rule of thumb" of using a cup and core bullet that fits into a fired case. The rifling in my BF is very shallow and I am hesitant to use larger than groove diameter bullets in this particular rifle for fear of excess wear of almost non existent lands. It is not that hard to size the bullets now that I have made the die, it just adds 3 more steps to the process( lube-size-clean).
Mike

I have a single shot 6.5x58R on a Heeren action. Years ago from what I read it had a .262 barrel so I found someone making .262 jacketed bullets and got a few. Do to a lack of brass I only shot it a dozen times or so. A couple of attempts back then of making brass out of 9.3x72R did not work out well as I found out the neck (when I managed to get nicely formed ones) would have to be inside reamed. Got a reamer but lost interest in the project. Recently, I woke up and slugged the barrel and found out it is .264. I found some good brass and discovered it really liked Sierra 120 grain bullets. Now that good 9.3x72R brass is available I feel that I could do a good job of forming them. I may have to dig it all out and try again. If I had the single claw scope mounts it was made for I would have gotten around to it sooner.

Halfadouble,
A .264" barrel is a real advantage and I believe it will be worth your time to take the project up again. Having to inside ream ( preferred) or outside turn the necks of cases formed from 9.3X72R cases is a disadvantage, but it only has to be done once, so in the overall scheme of things it shouldn't be a big problem. There is a (I think) mistaken impression that the Heeren is ugly or odd which sometimes affects it's desirability, but it has withstood the tests of time and I would be happy to own one. You might discuss scope mounts with New England Custom Guns. Good luck, have fun.
Mike

My barrel is .260 and I have a bullet sizing die from C&H, it does shoot .257 bullets well as seen but I'm a little afraid of gas cutting the throat on an irreplaceable barrel using undersized bullets. I size down 85 gr Sierra's and 90gr Speers .264 bullets for it.

Making cases from 9.3x72R

6.5(.260)x58R Sauer from 9.3x72R. Not really readily available intermediate dies so I do it in just the 6.5 FL die. Trim to near correct length, anneal and multiple sizing increments, when it gets tough re-anneal. Going slow prevents any wrinkles.

6.5x58R Sauer center, 9.3x72R right, 243 for reference right


My chamber is very generous so no reaming needed

Sorry I've been coyote hunting and didn't see this right away.

I tried the Bertram brass and it is very thin and brittle, I have to anneal it befor the first firing.

Here's another source, I haven't tried them or have any experience doing business with them but came across this the other day.

https://www.ammunitionartifacts.com/metriccartridgecases/65x58-rimmed-sauer

Thanks for the link, oskar. I think the newer brass I have is Bertram and, in spite of annealing, I lost one case on first firing to a longitudinal crack. I just wrote Der Ami that I'm going to dig out some new Norma 9.3x72R brass and give it another try. I had been shooting it in original Berdan brass. Still have some old factory rounds left.

HalfaDouble,

If you don't need the Berdan brass any more, I'm interested. I use Berdan primed cases in my 8x57R/360 and still have a few primers.
Mike.