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FAIR also made the Cortona line of O/Us for Kalispell (the case company). Those chokes are interchangeable with the Verona O/Us by FAIR.

HoJo: You need to follow this thread a bit more closely. Verona is just a brand name (like Charles Daly), and they had guns made for the Verona label by various companies (as did Charles Daly). The O/Us were by FAIR and the semi autos were by a Turkish outfit. So, Stan's Verona OUs are not Turkish.

I think the NEA guns were also from FAIR, but my memory is getting hazy on that one.

When Sig USA tried to crack the shotgun market about 20 years ago, they started with the SA3 and the SA5. As I recall, the SA3s were built by FAIR and the SA5s were built by B.Rizzini. Two different guns with the Sig label on them, but the choke tubes were not interchangeable.

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Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.


Not all pumps are 870s. You paint with a broad brush:



Sub 6lb Remington model 17. Just about everyone who ever touched it shot it well, and many of those were gun safety school kids and their nervous mother’s. A key is keeping the loads light for newbs, but, a guy could do a lot worse for his kid or wife.

Best,
Ted


It's not all about weight and LOP either.

Besides, it's well known that 98.7% of all first pumpguns are either 870s or Mossbergs... smile


In Iowa. Maybe.

Best,
Ted

___________________________________________
If every resident of the Minnesota counties that border Iowa, moved to Iowa,
the cumulative IQ of both states would go up.

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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.


Not all pumps are 870s. You paint with a broad brush:



Sub 6lb Remington model 17. Just about everyone who ever touched it shot it well, and many of those were gun safety school kids and their nervous mother’s. A key is keeping the loads light for newbs, but, a guy could do a lot worse for his kid or wife.

Best,
Ted


It's not all about weight and LOP either.

Besides, it's well known that 98.7% of all first pumpguns are either 870s or Mossbergs... smile


In Iowa. Maybe.

Best,
Ted

___________________________________________
If every resident of the Minnesota counties that border Iowa, moved to Iowa,
the cumulative IQ of both states would go up.


Actually, Ted, I lived in Minnesota at the time.

You know, every state tells that same joke about the state below it on the map.


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BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. I’ll grant you the specific “youth” models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26” barrel to replace the 18” barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18” from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted

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Word is some Iowa cheerleaders went missing shortly before the Packers revamped their offensive line. shhh!

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By chance was one of them named VerO'naka...

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I'm short in stature and most of my shotguns have been shortened to youth length and I shoot a 870 Youth very well. Light 20ga shotguns can be very hard recoiling shotguns. I've pretty much abandoned 20's in favor of light 12's and shoot 11/16 and 7/8 oz loads for clay birds and 7/8 and 1 oz for hunting.

I would surely look for a 26" barreled light 12 and cut the stock, save the piece to add back when needed..

The 870 suggestion I think is a great idea I gave my 870 youth 20 to my daughter and she and my granddaughter share it when out busting clays in the gravel pit.

21" 870 cut to youth dimension and a 26" SKB 100 surprisingly they handle very much alike.


Drying out in front of the stove after coming back from a combination waterfowl and coyote hunt SKB for the birds 870 for the coyotes

Last edited by oskar; 12/18/20 10:05 AM.

After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. I’ll grant you the specific “youth” models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26” barrel to replace the 18” barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18” from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted


Whatever Ted. You got all the answers. Carry on.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Originally Posted By: BrentD the Socialist PrOfessor
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. I’ll grant you the specific “youth” models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26” barrel to replace the 18” barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18” from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted


Whatever Ted. You got all the answers. Carry on.

brentD do all Socialist College prO'fessors walk around with a turd on their shoulder....

brentD and VerO'naka Stan don't have the only opinion.

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IIRC Verona labeled guns were also supplied by Zoli and Bernadelli.


Dodging lions and wasting time.....
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