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I bought this about 25 years ago at a garage sale for 45 bucks. It was pretty rusty the hammer in the firing pins were frozen solid. When I first got it I took the receiver apart and sanded and polished all the rust off and got the hammer mechanisms moving and working for you along with the firing pins. It was missing a hammer and looks like it was well used and banged around. I looked for original looking matching replacement hammers for decades and gave up. I have a body I grew up with that’s a gunsmith I sent it home with him two years ago and he just brought it back last week when he came down to hunt. I bought a pair of hammers from Dixie gun works and he installed them for me. I think the hammers were 63 bucks at the time and he does my work for free. When he brought it back we went to the range with the RST number 5 shells I bought for turkey hunting to try. It shot great! I have since made a fake Parkerizing patina look on the receiver so it doesn’t look knew compared to the rest of the gun. The only markings I can find on it are 396 on the barrel and receiver, 65 on the right side barrel, FB on the barrel land receiver lug. Also 96 on a few small parts. From what I’ve read on old posts here Charles Daly started importing shotguns in 1875 to the United States? ...and then I read that even though they imported them in 1875 the shotguns could even be older for some reason? I would assume my shotgun is a base model? I also read here that the guns were approx a 100 a year into the US? I’d so does that make mine a 1878? West model is it? Thanks for any info.
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Could you pleasure us with a few images of the sides of the frame & the barrel flats?
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Hello Tripplebeards and welcome on your first posting. Any addresses on the barrel rib? Any of the following marks on the flats of the barrels? http://www.shotguns.se/html/uk.htmlPLEASE post a photo of the Charles Daly marking Mike
Last edited by skeettx; 12/12/20 12:21 AM.
USAF RET 1971-95
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>>.....And here's what I guess: Daly was sourcing components or parts kits from W&C Scott of Birmingham until late 1870 or 1871 when he established his "factory" in Suhl, which was just having Georg Lindner to subcontract the work using components sourced from W&C Scott. Prior to that he may have been having the work performed by American craftsmen like Golcher & Overbaugh but the marks on those pre-1870/1871, or lack thereof, may answer the question of effort sourcing. Or, he may have been having William & Charles Scott manufacture his wares. Joe Wood may have a Daly Gun that is the missing link......<< https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...true#Post236261https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=147174&page=allSo the subject longarm could date to the mid 1870s, but it depends whether it was made from leftover William & Charles Scott components. I did notice that on the W&C Scott - Lindner - Charles Daly of which I am a custodian that it wears the Sauer >>Imperial Eagle<< process mark on the flats. Cheers, Raimey rse
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This might help http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20948056If you could post a full size close up of the barrel where the contrast is most apparent (possibly under the FE), I'll read the damascus pattern for you. Is it a 12 or 10 gauge? What Turkey loads are you using? Did your gunsmith friend measure the chamber length and wall thickness?
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Sidelock
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I own an early Charles Daly whose components were sourced from Scott and assembled in Prussia (best guess). I would imagine the barrels were finished and actioned to the receiver in the Scott factory. Also the bar action locks were probably fitted to the action in England. Has Scott serial numbers all over it, 15,251. Oddest thing about it (to me) is the barrel ribs are brazed, not soldered. Do post some photos and we will all try to help.
Last edited by Joe Wood; 12/12/20 02:23 PM.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Last edited by Tripplebeards; 12/14/20 10:46 AM.
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Just from the images it looks to be an >>ER<< or >>EB<<. This example would have been sourced thru Georg Lindner before H.A. Lindner hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1874. And it look to be an inland Suhl, Germany example & not from components from W&C Scott.
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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I noticed only 2 pins in the receiver before the hammer where most I see most have three or 4 in the same place. I read on an old post somewhere on this forum that approx a 100 were imported per year? If so I’m guessing this gun was made in 1878? But if it was made by George it would have to made earlier than 1878?
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 12/14/20 10:55 AM.
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Yes, earlier than 1874. There may have been 3 serial number sequences. 1 for Georg as a subcontractor to S,D&G. 1 for H.A. Lindner pre-1891(or when he was forced to replace his >>Crown<< stamp w/ his >>HAL<< stamp and 1 for post >>Crown over Crossed Sidearms<<.
I do not think we are sure that H.A. continued Georg's serial numbers or not?
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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So since it is not made from a W&C Scott parts kit & it doesn't wear the Quality Control Stamp(QCS) of H.A. Lindner, then it falls in between. I would say for sure pre-1874.
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Can you view the initials with a magnifying glass and see if they are >>E.R.<<, >>E.B.<< or >>E.E.<<, which if true would put it in 1876 as that is when Emil Eckoldt hung out his gunmaking shingle.
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Can you view the initials with a magnifying glass and see if they are >>E.R.<<, >>E.B.<< or >>E.E.<<, which if true would put it in 1876 as that is when Emil Eckoldt hung out his gunmaking shingle.
Cheers,
Raimey rse I zoomed in on my pictures...
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Good eye on the >>FB<< on the lug. But I was referring to the initials across from the >>65<< just forward of the flats. Cheers, Raimey rse
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I’m not at home. I’ll look tomorrow and post a pic. Thanks for all the help! I noticed those initials in the photos I posted and never noticed it looking at it prior. It’s going to eat at me till I get at home to see what it is.lol I zoomed up on the same photo and it looks like E R...
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 12/17/20 09:34 PM.
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It’s definitely stamped E R. I also took a complete photos of the wood forearm. Does E R tell what year it is? I took it out today to try and call in a winter turkey. All I saw were deer and squirrels. Maybe tomorrow I’ll harvest something with it.
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The Suhl mechanic's initials >>E.R.<< just adds another layer of complexity as right off, I know not who that might have been bu I will look. More than likely >>E.R.<< hung out his gunmaking shingle close to the time of Georg Lindner?
Serbus,
Raimey rse
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Some possibilities are(if any were active):
Emil Recknagel
Emil or Ernst Reinhardt
Ernst Russ of Zella - Mehlis
Ernst Ruck(if he was actually active)
Serbus,
Raimey rse
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I looked for contemporaries for Georg Lindner & found the following in a 1846 Suhl listing, but no >>ER<< mechanics were listed:
Andreas Reinhardt
Nicolaus Reiß
Johann Heinrich Rittelbach
Georg Christ. Röll
Stephan Gabriel Rosch
Christian Rosenthal
Gottlieb Hermann Rud(?)
As a sidenote, there was an August Rempt, listed as a Klempnermeister but I am not sure if he made tubes are not?
Serbus,
Raimey rse
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Thanks for looking. Guess my shotgun production year and where is came from is still a mystery.
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Band it between 1862 & 1874: >>All right, here's what my Magic 8 Ball says. But before that let me recap a bit. Schoverling & Daly was founded in either 1862 or most give 1865. In 1868 Friedrich Wiebusch was listed as a silent or special partner and he expired in 1893, 2 years after August Schoverling. I'm fairly confident that Friedrich Wiebusch was founding partner in Wiebusch & Hilger(Hilger & Co. founded in 1848??) which arrived on the scene around 1876 and continued till say 1928. After Friedrich Wiebusch expired, Charles Frederick Wiebusch, William S. Hilger & M. Taussig were at the helm and were mainly blade peddlers. In 1892, about the time they were listed as the sole Sauer agents, they were in a tiff with the U.S. of A. over bowie knives, which they considered to be sidearms but the government didn't see it that way & they lost. The seem to have drug in some Belgian arms also and all appears to have left port at Antwerp. Getting back on track, in 1869/1870 Schoverling & Daly advertised as being an agent of William Powell & Sons and the scattergun in the advert looks to have the lifter action but the verbiage is as follows: "4 systems - Lever Under Guard Double Grip, Side Snap, Top Snap Double Bolt & New Triple Fastening" and I am pleased to see B. Jacob of Selma, Alabama as an agent. I think it was in 1871 or 1877 as I've gotten my dates crossed but surely in the 1870s, SD&G had a satellite office at No. 65 Weaman Street, Birmingham and that seems to be the address of Tolley. Schoverling & Daly were involved in several import/retail houses and just like the tale that Charles Daly spun on the stand in the early 1890s(A. Schovering possibly would have been in the hot seat but he was on holiday in Germany where he expired) it seems that components were being imported as follows as all along with others were listed as agents of Schoverling & Daly: Tubes to William R. Schaefer was located 61 Elm Street, Boston, Massachusetts.....<< https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=236153&page=15Serbus, Raimey rse
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Great Great Grandfather Archibald Tyson's modest accommodations in Lowndesboro, Alabama (between Selma and Montgomery) 1858..still stands. Wonder if he bought one of those from Jacob "after the war." Today:
Last edited by Argo44; 01/21/21 11:01 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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It appears to have a Deeley forend fastener - an 1873 patent.
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Argo44:
With a house like that, he had to have one in every corner? Bet he had full time window washers......
Serbus,
Raimey rse
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It’s definitely a Deeley latch! What does the “1422” mean in front of the year 1873?
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https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...aly-12-ga-hammergun.cfm?gun_id=101588136A very kind member forwarded a link to Charles Daly Nr. 169 and as I was uploading the image of the components I noticed a tab on the right side of the toplever? Any ideas? My intent was to post an image of the >>V<<s forward of the flats on the tubes near the lower rib. I was going to see about @ what serial number the switch was made to Deeley & Edge forend fastner. Serbus, Raimey rse
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Subject Daly Nr. 396 Daly Nr. 169 with odd tap to the right of toplever utilizing a Westley Richards Doll's Head(Nr. 2506 of 1862) variant. Serbus, Raimey rse
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Cropped image showing tab.... Serbus, Raimey rse
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So indeed a Westley Richards Doll's Head Extension Toplever???? Serbus, Raimey rse
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Sidelock
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Might have anyone seen this type >>tab<< prior; even on a WR? Is it a stop?
Serbus,
Raimey rse
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I gave my rusty old barrel a vinegar bath over night and sanded it with 320 and 400 grit sandpaper. I then put a coat of Oxpho blue on the barrels and buffed off the top coat off with 600 grit sandpaper till the only bluing that was left was in the domascus lines. I then wiped it down with Lind seed oil. You should have seen all the rust that came off of the barrels when I wet sanded it after an hour of soaking in vinegar. I used a 4’ 3” PVC tube caped off on one end for the vinegar bath. I think it turned out nice. You can see the domascus pattern clearly now with all the dark blotchy rust spots removed. Sure looks a lot better to me! A faux case hardened the receiver with Oxpho blue... Before....after I cleaned and polished the solid rusted receiver, had new hammers installed, but left the barrel as is. I’m stripping the wood as we speak and steaming out dents.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 02/26/21 09:36 AM.
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Last edited by Tripplebeards; 03/13/21 02:41 PM.
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