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#586192 12/04/20 09:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 46
Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 46
I saw a post where someone was mentioning that it was possible to use solder it paste to relay ribs. I absolutely hate relaying but seem to do it a bit more than I want to and it seems this may be an easier option. Is there anyone here that uses this or heard of this????? Also I am looking for the solder like Holland and Holland uses in there promotional videos that is in a stick form as I hate the coil form. Thanks, Hereford

hereford #586201 12/05/20 06:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
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soldier paste should not be used for re laying ribs, its not strong enough, and is highly corrosive, its also near impossible to get the joint water tight. As a professional gunmsmith ive seen all sorts come through my workshop and the best advice is if your not confident your doing the right job, send it to someone who knows.

Spot repairs to ribs almost always end in failure eventually and should only be considered a temporary fix, the reason being that without lifting the ribs entirely its impossible to ascertain the quality of the two mating surfaces, the reason the condition of the surfaces matters comes down to a simple basic fact of soldier and braze joins, that the tighter the joint, ( ie the smaller the gap between the parts to be brazed or soldiered ) the stronger the joint. This is why best gun makers put many many hours of hand work into fitting the ribs to the curved surfaces of the barrels.

So, how do you re lay ribs; in essence its simple, first you heat up and remove the old ribs carefully.

Next clean off the old ribs and mating surfaces. To quickly get back to bare steel with minimal damage to the surface I have found using a brass wheel on the bench grinder a quick way to abrade the old soldier away.

Clean and de grease the old ribs and mating surfaces again, and apply masking tape either side of the mating surface on the join, (so the only steel you see is where the rib connects ) then apply soldier paste ( i use fryolux ) to the mating surfaces, its sometimes good to thin it out a bit with meths.

Using the gas torch heat each rib component and barrels up in turn and as the solider in the paste melts wipe it over with a wet cloth to tin the surfaces, do this all over but as far as is possible try to keep the tinned area only where it needs to be for the joint.

Next thoroughly clean absolutely everything, scrub it to high hell with soap and cold water even throw a bit of bicarb on a scrub it with that and then scrub it all again with cold water, the goal is to thoroughly neutralise any residues from the highly corrosive soldier pastes (*I have seen first hand this residue eat through barrels in as little as four years)

once everything is clean and dry you can wire everything up your wires must not too tight or too loose, just holding everything just so, old horse shoe nails are handy wedges for this task but you can make some simple wedges out of 3mm steel. Check and check and check the wiring.

To soldier use i big flame to heat the barrels evenly, do not focus on one spot too long, i use the type of torch that is designed for burning weeds, as it has a big flame that's plenty controllable and i don't have to hold a trigger to keep it lit you just set the gas flow and set to.

Use raw powdered rosin as the flux, it smells good and its not corrosive.

The solid bar soldier Holland and Holland use in their promotional videos is just bars of pure tin you should always use pure tin to re lay ribs. Its lighter and stronger and something about the lead component in other soldier also promotes corrosion so pure tin only is what you should use, you often have to buy this in at ingots and melt it down into handy bars for rib work.

Once finished you should clean everything off using a brass chisel to remove the excess rosin and tin ( save the tin and re use ) Once completely cleaned off submerge the barrels totally in water, if there are any bubbles, mark the gap areas and apply more flux and tin until all problem areas are eliminated the reason being is these leaking areas cause so many issues for barrel finishers.

the thing i hate most about strip and relays is it takes a full day by the time you have struck up the barrels again and its a smelly dirty messy job, and you get blobs of molten rosin and tin on the floor, but its never really as much of a chew as i think it is.

hereford #586202 12/05/20 06:32 AM
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I do think it was me who mentioned using solder paste in rib repair in a posting way back in the past. Though it was only for repairing very short runs and the odd place where the rib had parted company with the barrels. It works very well if you put it in a hypodermic syringe and use a large bore dosing needle forcing it under the rib with the careful use of a lead pencil giving minimum cleaning up of the end result. Though to use paste for a complete relay besides the extremely high cost for solder paste, it has difficulty in bridging very small gaps and if you heat the paste you will find that the solder content is minimal. The largest user of paste is the Electronics industry with their preferred mix of 60% Tin 40% Lead so not having the same strength and a lower melting point as 60% Lead 40% Tin though all solders are changing fast to Lead free.
Hollands promotional video, can I give you my thoughts about it? Bespoke London gunmakers lean heavily on the use of the tradition very chance they get!!! Well they do have to justify there high prices don't they? That sequence of soldering ribs using a 2 inch Propane burner nozzle and lumps of Rosin for flux with flames looking like the entrance to Hell plays to the past and the gallery very well. Though I don't think they do it all the time, my reasoning for this is I have done this very thing once and it was a lesson and a half because it took hours and hours to clean the barrels up because you have no control of the solder and flux flow. This is possibly allowed for in the cost for a new set of barrels for a new high price gun but for a repair and normal manufacture I don't think so! To relay a rib I use as small a flame as I can get away with working a small length at a time using modern Rosin based flux and 14 gauge plumbers solder hammered flat to get into the small gap between the rib and the barrel plus a lead pencil. This method I found does minimal damage to finishes and if you are really lucky you may only need to do some touching up rather than a full refinish job.


The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 46
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Sidelock

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 46
Well that is all I was needing to here in regards to using the product. I relay in the traditional way and saw this product and wondered. I also didn't know that the solder in the promotional video was only tin and not lead and tin. I guess the old ways are the only ways when it comes to this.


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