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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527 |
I have been searching for the connection between Bonehill & Matthews and came across a bit of info. which states that Matthews invented the top lever opening method and "others" improved on the design. I don't think these topics have been discussed on the board before (the B & M connection and the invention of the top lever). Any info. / comment on either would be appreciated. --- John Can.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
One book I have lists the year as 1870..."The son of Purdey the first brought out the familiar slide and top lever arangement as we know today".
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
When did it say he invented it?
Westley Richards used a toplever in their patent of 1858 for pinfires. It was part of their sliding bolt, doll's head locking system.
I'm not sure how the Scott spindle and Purdey bolt got together. I know Purdey was using their bolt with their first-patent thumbhole actions, so around 1865-66.
OWD
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
I have a Pinfire shotgun built by W & C Scott & Son, 7 Dorset Place, Pall Mall, London.
According to Mr J Crawford of W & C Scott, information service (Dec 1983) this gun was built under the 1863 patent # 2441 of Samuel Mathews, Birmingham. This gun has a top lever with single underbolt. The Scott Spindle was patented in October of 1865, which also used a top lever. Purdey used a thumb push lever with his double underbolt. The most widely used bolting over the years & still in wide use today is I believe the result of the "Marriage" of the Scott Spindle with the Purdey double bolt.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Later in Macdonald Hastings book along with a picture of the Purdey it states.
"In 1870-the date is arguable- Purdey introduced this double-barreled 12 bore pinfire gun. It's importance is that this seems to be the earliest model showing the top lever and sliding bolt action which is basically the Purdey gun today. Collectors should be very carefull in assigning diffinitive years to improvements. The Purdey action is incorporated in a later patent (no.397 of January 1878) and described again in Beesley's patent of 1880".
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 527 |
Thankyou all for your imput. This is where I got my info. - a good read. Google then go to Gun-LoveToKnow 1911. --- John Can.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
W.W. Greener, "The Gun and Its Development" page 142
TOP-LEVER ACTIONS AND OTHERS.
There are two distinct types of top-levermechanisms in one the lever swings upon a horizontal pivot on the standing breech, and is either raised or is depressed to withdraw the holding-down bolt and open the gun. This type is not generally used. In the other the lever turns upon a vertical pivot, and actuates various mechanisms, used to bolt the breech-action body and the barrels together.
The first top-lever mechanism is said to be that of a Birmingham gunsmith named Matthews. His production was a crude one, but the principle was improved upon and adopted a better form of it was introduced by Westley Richards about 1860, and "was applied to pin-fire guns. The chief advantages of the breech action lever being placed upon the top of the gun are: first, it is possible to carry the gun in any position without catching or displacing the lever; second, the shooter can at once detect whether or not the action is securely fastened, the position of the lever being noticeable as the gun is raised to the shoulder for firing; third, it is easier to manipulate than any other, and, length for length, allows of greater leverage than if placed elsewhere; the power the manipulator has to control the lever fixed in this position is very great, it being possible with even a short top-lever to raise both locks to full-cock as well as withdraw the holding-down bolts and overcome the weight of the spring which drives them home. Another advantage is that the hand, after firing the gun, can work the lever without losing its grip of the stock. A variety of bolts have been used with the top-lever, the most common being the double holding-down bolt shown in the illustrations of the "Top-lever Gun with Back-action Locks." Single, treble, and even quadruple grip-bolts have been made. The double bolt is preferable, as the single bolt, being short, Top-lever Gun with Back-action Locks.
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In addition to the levers already described, the holding-down bolts have been actuated by other devices, or by modifications of one or other of the levers noticed. A favourite at one time was the "Purdey", a short lever in front of the trigger-guard, the bow of which was pierced to allow the thumb to reach the lever and force it forward. Other levers in this position, instead of being pushed forward, or from the gun, to open the mechanism, were pressed towards it—a plan favoured by "Stonehenge", and still in use on a modern French gun, and but recently discarded by a well-known firm of manufacturers in America. In some cases the lever, instead of being moved by thumb or finger, is worked by the hand, as in the "comb-lever", which extends from the breech to the comb of the gun-stock, and is depressed to withdraw the holding-down bolts. Pete
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
I'm surprised Greener didn't claim it has his invention.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Note the W&C Scott pinfire I mentioned uses a right swinging lever pivoted on a vertical pivot, just as does most any modern top lever gun. The bolt is a sliding bolt in the bar of the frame engaging a single bite in the bbl's underlug, (Not quite as heavy & sturdy, but same principal as a Parker or Win 21). I have never dis-assembled it to see exactly how the connection between lever & bolt is made, but it apparently does "Not" use a vertical spindle, as this was not patented until 1865 by Scott. Mr Crawford estimated build date for mine between 1863-1865.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Scott held allot of patents...Macdonald Hastings said the date was arguable and I'm sure Scott production dates are somewhat arguable. Is the actual patent date and patentee researchable ?
Pete I read Greener again...is he talking about the top lever of today when he talks of Matthews or something different like a push lever ?
I think that's what Greener is referring to with Westley Richards....a push top lever.
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