doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 20 ga. 1 oz. reload suggestions

You might look for some Fiocchi 20 gauge shells. I see them a lot a Sporting Clays range in the trash cans of on the ground for free. You can load those with AA wads and Longshot at 1150, using Fiocchi primers. I like Longshot and have had good results. If you can find two loads they you can see which pattern well and go from there. I also expect there is a Federal 20 load out there to try.

I did some of this as well for 12 gauge, but it is easy to get powder migration above the sealing cup when loading wads meant for tapered hulls in straight-walled hulls, and Longshot is fairly small grained, so it does this pretty easily. The low pressures for these loads depend on a fair bit of blowby caused by the hull/wad mismatch. Shotgunworld's reloading forum sees this discussion over and over.

Prof, It does not really matter if a few bits of powder migrate as long as the shells are consistent in velocity and pressure. Some powders are better than others for migrating and the small ball or semi ball powders have always been know for migrating by the wad seal to some extent. It was a real problem with some .410 wads to the point that you had to increase the powder drop when using old empties. About 15 years ago I had several different hulls tested and found that after two reload I had to increase the powder drop by .7-1.2 grains to keep velocity up. It was caused by increased internal volume in the hull and greater powder migration with the orange PC wad being the worst, but still it gave the most consistent loads for velocity and pressure. After that I stopped worrying too about powder migration and decided velocity and pressures were more of a concern. Keep them as close to the same as possible and getting good patterns. I wondered at the time if the migrated powder did not still get fully burned up anyways and expect it mostly does. If the powder gets by the seal I expect a bit of fire does to burn the powder as well or as the wad exits the hull then the migrated powder should burn. So I load straight wall hulls with wads that may not prevent powder migration if they preform well in testing and patterning.

I loaded 5,000 Fiocchi 12 gauge hulls trimmed down to 67mm to shoot in both 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" guns. Loaded with Unique powder, load was 1 1/8 ounce, 1200 feet at 6400psi and a 1 1/16 ounce load which was slightly lower pressure. Loaded about 2,500 of each load. I had them tested, the loads that is, before I mass produced them on my Spolar loader. They were almost on the money, with extreme velocity variation of 35 fps in one and 16 in the other. Pressure varied more than velocity and the highest pressures did not relate to the highest velocity. The 1 1/16 is a really nice load that will even cycle a semi auto for my daughter in law, who shoots a Benelli SB3. In a SxS or pump it is a pleasure to shoot. I might just load only that load with 1 1/16 as it crimps nicely with out issues and seems to get the job done.

I no longer worry about what to shoot, if I want to shoot any 12 bore I have, from a 1860's Westley Richards hammer gun to modern gun. I just reach for a box of these Fiocchi and shoot without worry. They fit everything, are a safe moderate pressure and a decent velocity for any clay target. And I only load Fiocchis with these two low pressure loads, with common wads, a easily obtained powder and primers and used a standard crimp so no special loading issues. I have another 10,000 once fired hulls which I got for less than a penny each. When these 5,000 are shot up then I will load another 5,000. I even have 16 pounds of Unique I bought just before Alliant started increasing prices through the roof. Other than hunting loads in 12 gauge I am set for a year maybe in 12 gauge.

Turkey hunter-handloaders have reported bloopers caused by migrating powders with some wads made by BP. However these were most likely shells carried over from season to season in someone's pocket. I believe the wad, nomenclature escapes me, was a 20 ga. wad with two small openings in the gas seal the purpose of which was unknown to me. I avoided the wad. Gil

Jon,
I loaded 125 rounds with 1 3/16th oz of bismuth using Longshot in Cheddite hulls and WAA12R wads. About 1/5 turned out to be bloopers. When I cut down the remaining shells, I found that most or even all of the powder had migrated up into the compression section of the hull. Whether this happened while in my pockets or in reloading I don't know, but I suspect the latter. When the wad is seated a lot of air has to be expelled, obviously. I think that is when the powder gets blown up above the powder cup. In any event, I was warned of powder migration but chose to ignore that based on finding published recipes for these loads. Just did not work for me.

Cheddites are not my favorite empty, which is a shame because they are everywhere. When I am loading a new load that matters, and hunting loads really matter, I send a group out for testing. With powder migration you describe they will show up a extreme variation in velocity. The nice thing about Fiocchi hulls is that you can see what is going on inside them as mine are a semi clear plastic. With Cheddites and fine grain powders you either have to go with a wad designed for straight wall hulls, like some of the Federal type wads or buy the much more expensive Euro wads. I hate accumulating so many special, single use wads so am trying to go with common wads being used for multiple loads by changing powder use.

I expect your loads would have been fine with BlueDot, if you had any on hand, because it would not migrate as much. The Winchester ball and small flake types like American Select would be off my list. I know Claybuster makes some wads in a straight hull configuration as well as the normal tapered hull configuration, but do not know if they do it for the AAred wad you are loading. In fact I am sure they did not last time I checked. You could use the Remington RP12 which seemed to give a better gas seal than the AA12R did. I use to drop about a grain less powder with the Remington wads. I just checked the Hodgdon website and that still holds true. We use to have a lot of bloopers with Sr 4756, in extreme cold weather. Bloopers are disheartening when you are hunting because your chances are so limited in numbers, you want perfection. Plus the safety issue if you are shooting a semi automatic about the barrel being clear for the next shot. Sorry for your problems. It is food for thought.

Gil, I remember that issue well because I fired a blooper at a big gobbler with one. That was an unusual experience. The primer had enough power to lob the shot towards him, but it all landed before getting to him. He didn't know what had happened, but didn't hang around very long.

The issue wasn't a wad in this case; it was a gas seal sold by BPI that was placed over the powder and under the wad. For some reason, they put 2 holes in the "seal" that allowed quite a bit of the W296 to pass through it, leaving an air pocket to cause the blooper. I thought I was just unlucky, but I took the rest of the shells apart and nearly all of them would have misfired after being carried on just one hunting trip. The load works great if you fill the holes with fingernail polish or something similar.

Stan, I've had good results using Longshot in a 1 oz 20 gauge load, though it is a little faster than what you need. It sounds like you have solved your problem anyway. It's always amazing to me how very small changes in your shells can have such an effect on POI with a SxS. Try regulating a light field gun to shoot 1-5/8 oz turkey loads if you wanna have some fun. 😊