doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Annie Oakley's Guns

"New York Times" 9-15-94 from undated "Shooting & Fishing" with a list of guns and the Lancaster dimensions. Only 1 Parker and likely a hammerless by then?

Great pics, Drew.

Back to the one of her in the flowery embroidered skirt. The Smith she is holding ....... in an earlier post in this thread you gave the dimensions of the buttstock at 1 1/4" DAC and 1 7/8" DAH. Are you sure about that DAH measurement? It looks like more in the range of 2 7/8" DAH. When I take a straight edge and hold it carefully along the top rib, and let it extend back past the heel, it looks to be almost certainly more than 1 7/8".

Also, if her Ithaca trap gun had 2 1/4" DAH, I can't imagine the Smith would have had 3/8" less.

What do you think?

Thanks, SRH

Unfortunately I do not have the SN or actual DOM of the Tiffany engraved ?A1 with chain damascus Smith in order for Dr Jim to look up the dimensions.

I've tried to enhance/crop several images in order to ID the guns - all the originals are unfortunately low resolution and low size. The originals date to 1885-1887.
All opinions are appreciated.

#1 is interesting - appears to have side clips and sculpted breech balls



A different sidelock and the lockplate and pins are fairly clear



and if the same gun, looks to have the Scott FE lever



Another sidelock

2 3 gun images, the top 1885 but the bottom with a different skirt and possibly 1886 or later

I have lettered all of the identified "Annie Oakley" guns listed in The Parker Story. Several are surely not Annies guns but are Franks guns or guns ordered by Frank for resale. Annie's Lancaster dimensions, odd and rare in the Parker records, are duplicated on some of the The Parker Story guns, some to the sixteenth of an inch. They are extremely high drop at comb and uncommonly high at heel. There are guns out there with Annie's unique Lancaster dimensions, identified in Parker records, and also identified in measurements of the guns as they appear today, and identified as "Annie" guns but not ordered by Frank Butler. These guns are ordered from Parker Brothers with the exact Lancaster dimensions, to the sixteenth of an inch, with other features that indicate "Annie" provenance. In my experience, not all of Annie's guns were ordered by Frank Butler, but by other friends or business associates in Newark when Annie and Frank resided there. I have found and identified one of these guns but am reluctant to write about it, pending further research.

Dave Noreen, "Researcher", has implied that Frank may have sold guns identified as "Annie" guns when they were not Annie's guns. In fact, one of the highest dollar Annie Oakley guns was sold in the recent past that was, in fact, not Annie's gun. The buyer, at auction, was apparently happy with his purchase, regardless of its spurious provenance. It is probably not the only one sold at a high price that lacked good provenance. The unusual, if not unique, stock dimensions are the key to an original Annie gun, confirmed by the Parker Brothers records. After Annie became wedded to the weird Lancaster dimensions, all of her special order guns from Parker Brothers conformed to those dimensions. Any Parkers with more common dimensions, ordered by Frank Butler, were not Annie Oakley's guns, unless some other provenance is present.

So in summary, and trying to get some help here gentlemen

We don't know if this was a "rifle" or a L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse shotgun. The hammerless was introduced in 1886.
The Critic (Washington, District of Columbia), Friday November 12, 1886
Miss Annie Oakley, the sharp shooter, possesses the most valuable rifle in America. Every screw in it is of solid gold, and a figure of herself, also of gold, is set in the stock. It was a present from L.C. Smith of Syracuse.

Annie's letter on p.1 stated 4 Lancasters made in 1887

The 1894 New York Times piece above listed 2 Lancaster, 1 Scott, 1 Parker & 1 Francotte.

The Art of Wingshooting, William Bruce Leffingwell, 1895
https://books.google.com/books?id=e34EmE3tkfkC&pg=PA106&vq
�I was permitted to examine many of the fine guns used by Miss Oakley in exhibition shooting, and noticed among them one Charles Lancaster ejector, one Charles Lancaster non-ejector, a Cashmore hammerless, a magnificent Smith ejector with a gold figure of herself inlaid, a Parker hammerless, a Scott Monte Carlo, a Scott ejector of highest quality, and an exquisite little Francotte ejector with Whitworth barrels.
Could that be the 1886 gift from L.C. Smith??

This claims that FIVE Cashmores were made for Annie
http://www.jbssoftware.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?condon/24875

The 2 Parker hammer guns on p. 2 have clear provenance. Here is one
https://centerofthewest.org/2014/05/25/points-west-annie-oakley-collecction/
Where is the 1895 referenced Parker hammerless??

Her Tiffany engraved possibly Smith A1 was made 1898 or 1899. Dr Jim and I have contacted both the BBHC and the Gene Autry museums hoping to get the SN so the Hunter Arms' records can be checked.

Calling this Gold Hibbard an "Annie Gun" is a bit of a stretch
http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-galleries/the-american-west-1850-to-1900/case-21-tin-stars-sixguns-frontier-justice/annie-oakley's-hibbard-shotgun.aspx
(You'll need to cut and paste the link)

Here is another
https://garyhendershott.net/western-catalog.php

A Lancaster

Salopian, I have all of my research material on Annie's stock dimensions in front of me, including the PCGA letters on all of the attributed Annie guns listed in The Parker Story, as well as the Lancaster dimensions. If you will give me the specifications of the gun you own, I will give you my opinion of the Annie connection of your gun. I assume your gun was made after the Lancaster measurements were taken. What brand is your gun? The circumference of the grip is part of the measurements also.