doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Different types of f/e latches

I'm interested in the pros and cons of the different types of forend latches. Far and away the Deeley & Edge latch is what we see most, especially on American guns and some Italian guns. It is strong, it looks nice to the eye, and it gives a canvas for some additional engraving on a gun. It was the choice of Parker, Fox on most of their graded guns, and numerous others. But, of roughly forty S X Ss I own, if I open one of them and feel any movement in the forend when the breech "bottoms out" open, it has this style latch. Once fitted perfectly it will stay that way, and tight, for a long time. But, wear will eventually loosen the fit and cause looseness, IMO.

The Anson "push-rod" type fastener, preferred by much of the London trade, is an improvement in the way the coil spring holds it tight, and compensates for wear at the knuckle. But, that button sticking out dead in front of the wood is a catch-all for twigs, grass and leaves. I have several guns with this style latch, but have never warmed up to it completely.

Then, we have the simple snap-on forend mechanisms, of different styles by different makers. My favorite of these is the one on some Sterlingworth Fox guns and graded small bores. It was developed by Kremer, and Ansley Fox himself, according to patents, but is simply called the Kremer latch. Strong, self compensating for wear at the knuckle, it would seem to be the best answer to the "problem" of holding the forend iron tight against the knuckle without extensive fitting, and re-fitting. Yet, as far as aesthetics goes, it adds nothing. On the ejector Fox guns using the Kremer, and other spring loaded design latch, an escutcheon was inletted and fastened to the f/e iron to add strength to the whole affair. This small round escutcheon certainly does strengthen the attachment to the wood, but it also adds a touch of good looks to the otherwise empty underside of the forend wood which, other than the checkering, has nothing to "break up" the expanse.

I'm interested in opinions about mechanical advantages/disavantages, aesthetics, and actual usage of the different types in the field. My feelings? I like the appearance of the Deeley & Edge latch, but not the way it wears out of adjustment. I like the wear compensating of the Anson push-rod type, but not it's protrusion in front, in use. I really like the Kremer spring loaded latch, it's lasting strength, it's simplicity and wear compensating feature. But, it leaves the forend a bit plain as far as looks goes, unless an escutcheon is added.

Have at it. Feel free to correct any errors I may have made also, as I just typed this off the top of my head without much reference to recorded literature.

SRH

I much prefer traditional cross keys and escutcheons to any of those, but if I had to pick it would be Deeley/Edge

I had a ejector SW with the Kremer latch with the escutcheon. Worked very well.....I just couldn't get past the horrible esthetics of the mid 1930's Savage era forend. Whoa it was bad!

In general I think I prefer the Anson push button over the Deely latch. My SxS are about 50/50 divided between those style. Maybe it's the style of hunting I do but I've never noticed the push button becoming a cow-catcher for grass and twigs.

Stan,
I've found that both work equally well for me. The engraving on the Deely looks nice, as does the push button escutcheon engraving.
Karl

Don't forget the Rigby latch. Rigby Latch It is used on a lot of double rifles and a few shotguns. It is strong, but does have metal on the bottom of the fore end.

All the latches work fairly well.

Ken

Rigby style rotary levers work and look beautiful. My favorite.

Also a huge fan of W&C Scott patent 615 of 1876, forend tip lever type catch is also very elegant and beautiful plus it works great.

Simplicity......the Lancaster �sugar tongs� forend fastner. Simple and effective.

I much prefer the Deeley latch.

I had a gun with an Anson latch shed the forend once while shooting.

The Sterlingworth 'latch' can be a liability in the woods. The necessary rubber band rather detracts from the aesthetics.

I forgot to mention the L C Smith rotary latch. I only have one, on my 32" barreled 16 ga., but don't know enough about it to comment on it's strengths or weaknesses.

SRH

I like the L.C. Smith style and the M21-- FWIW RWTF

By far the bulk of the Fox ejector doubles with snap-on/-off forearms have the F.T. Russell latch, Patent No. 1,029,229 granted June 11, 1912. The J.C. Kremer & A.H. Fox latch Patent No. 1,029,374 was also granted June 11, 1912. A.H. Fox Gun Co. had been using The Kremer & Fox latch on their extractor Sterlingworth and the F.T. Russell latch on the Sterlingworth Ejectors for about a year and a half when the patents was granted. Parker Bros. brought out their Trojan in 1912 with a latch very similar to the Kremer & Fox latch. Probably four decades ago now Babe Delgrego showed me some letters between A.H. Fox Gun Co. and Parker Bros. about this. That was before I was collecting details on this minutia and I don't know what the outcome was, but the A.H. Fox Gun Co. quit using the Kremer & Fox latch and went to using the F.T. Russell Latch on both extractor and ejector guns.

On April 24, 1879, E. Remington & Sons was granted the U.S. license to use the Deeley & Edge latch. All guns with a lever in the forearm are not a Deeley & Edge latch. Parker Bros. got around the license to E. Remington & Sons by having the lever in their forearms actuate a tilting block in the slot in the forearm iron that engages the lip on the forearm loop. Not the Deeley & Edge opposing hooks. Ansley Fox used the tilting block on his Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox Parker Bros. lookalike.

Probably one of the best latches was that on the late Ithaca NID ejector guns that combined the spring tension of the Baker J-Spring with the locking feature of the lever-actuated tilting block.