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Forums10
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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197 |
Now that 1909 date pairs with the >>mm<< stamps and had the longarm been subject to the new 1911 Z-M Rules(not law)(1912-Suhl) then there would have been a chamber length associated. It could have been a little earlier but I just do not think it would date to the late 1880s.
I still cannot put my hands on references for the novel rear frame centre pivot point for the scears for the A&D Body Action platform. There is some advantage to it. I do know it has been discussed on at least 1 thread. But all the German makers less say H.A. Lindner waited until the patent protection period for the A&D Body Action(lower scears) to expire then they adopted the A&D Body Action and the Kerner-Anson followed & became a Suhl staple.
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,474 Likes: 208
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,474 Likes: 208 |
Admitting that I haven't seen all of them, I don't think I have ever a proof house date and ledger number on a rib, rather than a barrel. I have seen several bore diameters marked in mm with out case length on Suhl proofed guns( mostly Sauer made, maybe happenstance). Mike
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197 |
Between say 1903(empirically derived)& 1912(Rules change date) most of Z-M's doubles had their proof date & ledger number on the lower rib.
Cheers,
Rainey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197 |
Besides W. Förster, the following would have peddled similar examples & it seems that they may have ordered a gesteck or parts kit from their Belgian counterparts(like DUCO) and have it completed in Zella - Mehlis or less often Suhl. They made more money this way.
F.W. Vandrey
O. Geyger
J.J. Reeb
Ludwig Schiwy
I may have missed a couple so I'll check further.
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 23
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 23 |
Fuhrmann - I think so too. The Archducal Coronet is similar to the Prince's Hat but there are subtle differences. Looking at an enlarged version of the image on this gun sure looks like the Prince's Hat to me.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
I would agree to "Fürstenkrone" or "Fürstenhut": ...and there were a lot in Europe at that time.... Cheers, Wolfgang
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Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 23
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 23 |
Wolfgang - I assumed there were many as well. But it seems this Prince's Hat is specific to the Austro-Hungarian Empire and only certain lands within. The detail that narrows the possibilities further yet is the "R" initial, of course. In fact, I can't find a possibility during 1909.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197 |
Some resurrected info on ole Wilhelm Förster: >>W. Foerster was a master gunsmith and a supplier to the Royal Court of Carl(1801-1883) von Preussen from 50 Tauben Strasse 50, Ecke Der Kanonier Strasse, or what I think to mean as also being at/near the corner of Cannon Street. Carl von Preussen was the 3rd son of King Friedrich William III of Prussian. Carl had 5 sisters one of them being Charlotte of Prussia, who had a very close relationship with Carl von Preussen demonstrated by her caring for Carl even after she was wed to Tsar Nicholas I of Russian. Carl von Preussen attended her coronation to the title of Tsarina Alexandra Feodorovna. Carl von Preussen visited Russian several times and this is the social network/connection that allowed W. Foerster to be a firearms merchant/supplier to kings and Tsars. Firearms merchants with a royal appointment or being interconnected to the court seems to really elevate the status of the maker/supplier in the eyes of many & the firearms merchant touts that thru advertising. W. Foerster seems to have had such a following in Russia. But W. Foerster hit the jackpot with his royal warrant/supplier to the Royal Court of Carl von Preussen as Carl took the military route for his ascension and by 1824 he had the rank of Major-General which was a stepping stone for head of artillery by the 1850s. Carl looks to have had a great interest in hunting and passed the passion by purchasing the Glienicke hunting lodge for his son Prince Friedrich Karl, which was yet another source for W. Foerster to supply.<< >>Finally, after searching & searching I finally stumbled across a late 1872 advert of W. Foerster touting his dubbed title of HofBüchsenmacher. So by 1871, or very early 1872, W. Foerster received his Royal Warrant while at Berlin Taubenstraße 45.<< https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=206187&page=allCheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,842 Likes: 197 |
Totally off the subject with the only connection being that of being a firearms merchant in Berlin, but Büchsenmacher Paul & Anggelika Kleszczewski/Kleszewski of Berlin advertised as having a factory when in reality all Paul had was 2 foot powered lathes in the small basement(7m X 27m) of their home. The Verband Deutscher Büchsenmacher took his license for unfair advertising by allowed Paul's wife to continue. Too, Paul was a Hungarian in Berlin that survived for quite some time. A good read on Dietrich's website where the most astute custodian Larry Schuknecht maintains quite a depth of German info on the website. http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/archives/kleszczewski-a-berlin/
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