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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9 |
Picked up a rough Lefever yesterday that caught my attention.
Serial Number; 12395
Lock plates, action and one barrel set(26") have very similar "font" for the stamped s/n.
Second barrel set has a different font is stamped E12395. Is the "E" significant?
26" Barrels: marked on the rib "Lefefer Arms Co. Patentees & Makers Syracuse NY" s/n 12395 on left barrel flat 9641 stamped on both barrels approx 2" forward of the flats.
32" Barrels E12395 stamped about 1" forward of right barrel flat. No other markings on barrels. Rib is machine matted.
Quick check with a bore gauge has 26" bores in the .783" range with .003" & .006" choke. 32" bores in th .790" range with approx .015" & .030"
Bores and all metal is very, very dirty but no gross pitting. Actually, no obvious pitting at all but bores need a good scrubbing. Spiders had taken up residence. Came from a dead gunsmith auction and was clearly someones project. Stock is broken completely through the wrist and buttstock in missing. Parts were taped together with some very old masking tape, so a detailed cleaning should be done.
I'd post pictures, but I haven't kept up with any hosting sites as most forums now allow uploading pictures.
Thoughts and comments on this Lefever? My "guess" is 26" are damaged originals and the 32" are replacements.
Thank you in advance.
Mike
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,092 Likes: 192
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,092 Likes: 192 |
12395 is the serial number of the later barrels, E is the grade, and maybe a lower number, 9641, is the serial number of the original gun.
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 355 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 355 Likes: 10 |
Ok firstly, ya need to post pictures.
2nd, if the frame, trigger guard and one set of barrels says 12,395...that is the serial number of the gun. If the 2nd set is stamped with both the 9xxx number AND the 12,395, my bet is the barrels are a factory original 2nd set. They used barrels that they had in house, which had been previously stamped 9xxx...and they stamped them with the 12,395 number to match. This was not uncommon with Lefever. If they only had a different number on them I would say they had been robbed from another gun...but if the 12,395 stamp is original, the most likely conclusion is they were sold as a factory original 2nd barrel set.
All the same, different fonts might give me pause. Pictures would tell the tale.
Unless I missed it, you didnt say what letter grade stamp is on the frame. The E on your barrels is likely a grade stamp, which some Lefever barrels have. Sometimes the grade stamp on the barrels is mismatched to the frame. We have seen things as odd as a C grade with Optimus stamped barrels.
Good find, even if in rough condition. Going by just your description, I think you have a factory original two barrel set. It would be quite interesting if the 26" barrels are un-cut original length. For a 10 ga that's pretty short, but not out of the question. If you post a clear photo of the muzzle it will be obvious if they've been cut....Lefever barrels should ALWAYS touch.
NDG
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9 |
Ok firstly, ya need to post pictures. 2nd, if the frame, trigger guard and one set of barrels says 12,395...that is the serial number of the gun. If the 2nd set is stamped with both the 9xxx number AND the 12,395, my bet is the barrels are a factory original 2nd set. They used barrels that they had in house, which had been previously stamped 9xxx...and they stamped them to match. This was not uncommon with Lefever.
Unless I missed it, you didnt say what letter grade stamp sis on the frame. The E on your barrels is likely a grade stamp, which some Lefever barrels have. Sometimes the grade stamp on the barrels is mismatched to the frame. We have seen things as odds as a C grade with Optimus stamped barrels.
Good find, even if in rough condition. Going by just your description, I think you have a factory original barrel set.
NDG Been posting pictures on this site since '97. If I had an easy way to do it, they would already be up. Grade stamp on the frame is "F" Triggerguard is broken(and missing) aft of the screw hole, so no s/n on that part. What caught my eye and clued me in that it was an earlier Lefever was the pivoting top lever. Should also mention that both barrel sets use the same forend. Since you insist on pictures, here are the ones put up by the auction house. . https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACt...9-no?authuser=0 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACt...9-no?authuser=0I actually went to buy this AyA that was part of the same auction lot and discovered the interesting details of the Lefever when I got there. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACt...9-no?authuser=0
Mike
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9 |
12395 is the serial number of the later barrels, E is the grade, and maybe a lower number, 9641, is the serial number of the original gun. 12395 is the s/n on action.
Mike
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134 Likes: 309
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,134 Likes: 309 |
I'll post the photos for you. There are geniuses with wrenches, torches, engraving tools, who are paralyzed in front of technology.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 355 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 355 Likes: 10 |
Nice packaging! But I feel strongly the tape is not original.
Seriously though, an interesting project gun. If the frame says F, ther gun is an F. Don't even worry about whether the barrels are original or not...just enjoy whatever you make of the project.
Nudge
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9 |
Argo, Thanks for the images. Usually the Google images will host with the img tags, but not here. The software for this site is a bit.....dated.
Mike
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,588 Likes: 9 |
Nice packaging! But I feel strongly the tape is not original.
Seriously though, an interesting project gun. If the frame says F, ther gun is an F. Don't even worry about whether the barrels are original or not...just enjoy whatever you make of the project.
Nudge I plan on sitting it aside for now, as there are many projects ahead of it. Have a couple of 20ga Flues I am restoring for my grandson. Two early A Grade Fox's will be here in a few days. One needs a new stock. Plus the rifles I am building. If I get those done in any reasonable time frame and this is still on the shelf, then maybe. But I suspect that it will head down the road. I haven't stocked a small frame O/U and the AyA is that.
Mike
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,264 Likes: 93
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,264 Likes: 93 |
Its easy to post pics here. And any free hosting site will work...
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