doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com interesting offerings on GB

an assortment of interesting doubles from a guy that i perceive as more a parts vendor....french guns with german barrels....with english barrels...all of which were obviously once very nice guns that some mad scientist (?) has doctored on....based on the offering together/similar ages/similar conditions and modifications, i would assume they are obtained from the same source...these are obviously "projects" and likely deep holes to dive into - but still interesting guns...curious to hear responses....

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878877361

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878878522

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878877957

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878878988

All three are pretty nice.. I too like all of them. Wish he would post more information with them.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878878988

I wonder why/how the British touchmark of Crown over V arrived on the water-table? The German touchmarks on the barrel flats(1 of ?) date to end of WWI or early 1920s.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

All have my head spinning....talk about cross-cultural diversification!

The third one has this escruntcheon plate:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878877957


"Le Bazar de la Charit�, 1888"
It obviously originally was black powder proofed.

One would think it to be a Paris gun but darned if it doesn't look Brit!! And I cannot begin to decipher the proof marks. I'm going to assume it's a German given in 1888 to a charity sale in Paris. - where it went from there is a mystery:



Re "Le Bazar de la Charit�," I'll translate the below if there is interest.

Le Bazar de la Charit� est, � l'origine, un consortium de plusieurs �uvres de bienfaisance, qui louent un local ou un espace d'exposition en commun, afin de r�duire leurs d�penses et de permettre de grouper acheteurs et invit�s. Install�, de 1885 � 1887, rue du Faubourg-Saint-Honor�, en 1889 place Vend�me et, en 1888 et de 1890 � 1896, rue La Bo�tie5, il est transf�r� en 1897 aux nos 15 et 17 de la rue Jean-Goujon dans le 8e arrondissement, sur un terrain mis gracieusement � disposition par le banquier Michel Heine6.

(Reilly had a shop for a few months on rue du Faubourg-Saint-Honor� in 1885.)

As for the fourth
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878878988

This is not a French gun. It was retailed by Heut Armorier in Lille.


I'll leave it to the Germanophiles to interpret these marks:



I suppose this engraving could be a French gun (Scott Spindle on the top lever):


I don't have a clue about the proof marks on the action flats:


Broken stock and all, it's a handsome gun.

they are all handsome, and a couple of them were fine guns (chapu definitely is top drawer maker, and the belgian 20 with arcaded balls is no slouch)....was the huet gun rebarreled in germany? seller warns its not on face, has someone found barrels close enough to fit?

at any rate, some entertaining fodder for the mill...and an opportunity to show brashness/bravery?

best regards,
tom

based on what i've seen seller is not a shotgun guy, he seems to mainly deal in rifles and parts - some quite nice, but most showing a good deal of wear. he has several mannlicher schoenauers parted out into major components.
b.r.
tom

Huet is definitively the retailer, not the maker. That mark around the trigger guard is very French and very conclusive.

What perplexes me on the Huet is the British proofmarks on the water-table. The action, or a gesteck, must have been sourced from the little British isles. The other, or original, tubeset would be the missing piece of the puzzle.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Greybeardtmm3 are you the seller? Links to auctions are typically posted only after the auction has closed. I know a couple guys on this board that were bidding on those guns before your post and any economical deal is now likely not going to happen.

It�s still a free country, and other guys do it too, but it doesn�t seem like the kind thing anyone would want to happen to them. The discussion about German barrels and English proof marks could have been had after the auction closed.

Everyone can Cuss me if you like.

Too on the the Crown over V touchmark, that is an inspection mark of the Gunmaker's Company and is typically a >>view<< mark applied after final proof????


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

i am not the seller. i have an interest in french shotguns, and have on several occasions posted items offered on online sites for discussion here. there are a handful of gentlemen here who collectively represent an impressive degree of knowledge re: french makers - one of the more difficult subjects to research.
i offer no apology for what you seem to regard as poaching on your friend's personal hunting grounds. perhaps you could tell them to block my password on gunbroker.

best regards,
tom

turns out three of the four guns were sold last month...with somewhat more informative descriptions.

https://live.amoskeagauction.com/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/50?lotnum=775

Here is a curious development.

I bought the Cogswell & Harrison that was part of the group of guns sold by this dealer.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/878878522

Naturally, I also went and immediately got myself a copy of Cooley & Newton's "Cogswell & Harrison -- Two Centuries of Gunmaking," Safari Press, 2000.

This shotgun has a very beautiful stock, unfortunately broken at the wrist and imperfectly repaired. The right hammer, at half cock, rested farther forward than the left, and needs adjustment.

I immediately shipped the gun to Kirk Merrington.

Meanwhile, the book arrived. Plate three opposite page 48 is a photograph of Cogswell & Harrison hammergun 14742 described as an ejector gun made in 1887, from the collection of Emil Rosner. My shotgun has the same serial number, and looks identical. However, the book describes it as an ejector gun. I saw no ejectors and the seller specifically said it had no ejectors. Strange.

It is very cool, of course, to wind up with a gun illustrated in the reference book on the Gunmaker.

I thought it was a really fine example of the London Best Gun. I own a Blissett, and I compared my Blissett once in detail with a Purdy of the same period and style and concluded that they were of identical quality. I think the Cogswell & Harrison is very much in the same league. I hope that the stock can be repaired. I took a flyer on the gun because I have seen this kind of break repaired so well that you couldn't even tell it was there. Time will tell.

I wonder if Emil Rosner participates here.

Looks like it has an ejector mechanism attached to the barrels ??

You know I think you're right. Dysfunctional, of course. I'm used to seeing the ejector mechanism in the foreend.

Harrison Patent ejector

I wonder how hard Harrison Patent ejectors are to repair.

+1 bsteele.... I agree with you 100%. Most guys perusing the auction sites are looking for a deal, and if they are smart, they won't tip off the whole double-gun community if they spot something they plan to bid on. So why would I feel it is OK to increase the competition for those guys who may have put in hours of searching by posting links that will gin up the interest of others who wouldn't take the time to do the time consuming leg-work?

I expect he made an exception in this particular case because the guns were mostly of Continental make and had problems, so he probably figured that interest would be modest.

I had not been planning to bid on any of them, but the quality of wood on that Cogwell & Harrison kind of grew on me, and the price seemed derisive, so I decided to gamble on it being able to be repaired.

I was drinking a bit that night and when some opposition bidding clocked in late in the game, my aggressive instincts were aroused and I chased the gun rather higher than I'd intended. You know how auctions are, especially accompanied by Remy Martin.

I thought I had foolishly succumbed to auction fever, but when it arrived, I thought the gun was not all that bad. Who knows? Maybe I was lucky.

I don't think it is a bad thing to point out rather unusual auctions like those 4 guns. Because they were Continental guns and not especially likely to be very valuable, I think it was not inappropriate to point them out.

I did not bid on any of them but did learn a bit from them.

David, I don't think that Remy hurt you too bad. That is a nice piece of wood and an interesting gun overall.

I like guns that can be researched. I found that Christie's sold a lot of the late Emil Rosner's gun collection in 2002. I found a copy of the catalogue on Ebay for $12. An article on Cogswell & Harrison Avant Tout hammer guns by Geoffrey Boothroyd is listed in the C&G book's bibliography from the Shooting Times issue of 31 January 1991. I managed to locate a copy I could order of that, too.

Cogswell & Harrison guns seem, from what I see, in later periods to occupy a position of lower esteem (and pricing) than the usual big names. Also, vintage Cogswell & Harrison hammer guns seem to be scarce. Judging by the one I bought, their quality was absolutely top end back then.

Let's just hope it can be repaired.

The Cogswell & Harrison Avant Tout Ejector hammer gun's previous sales, I found sitting right there on-line:

2002: https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/...75-details.aspx

AN UNUSUAL 12-BORE 'THE AVANT TOUT' HAMMER EJECTOR GUN BY COGSWELL & HARRISON, NO. 14742
The action incorporating an unusual ejecting mechanism set behind the forend-loop, toplever, percussion fences, rebounding backlocks, best foliate-scroll engraving, highly-figured stock (cracked at the head) with horn butt-plate, the barrels with game-rib
Weight 6lb. 8�oz., 13 7/8in. pull, 30in. barrels, proof exemption.

---------------------------

Sold to the Gun Broker dealer, August 29, 2020:

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms/Black-...mation/55932594

The really interesting detail, it seems to me, is that this gun, serial number 14742, is the only 'AVANT TOUT' HAMMER EJECTOR GUN BY COGSWELL & HARRISON I can find. None are listed for sale. This gun is the very one pictured in the Cooley & Newton COGSWELL & HARRISON book.

My guess is that these are downright rare. Not that many were made and few survive. But having examined this particular gun, I'm persuaded that, back then, in the 1880s, C&G was producing top-grade London Best Guns competitive with those of the best London makers. It seems clear that the firm's status in later periods was not quite so high.