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Forums10
Topics38,459
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,118 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,118 Likes: 198 |
Drew, I like my #5 Parker try gun better than any of the others because the grip area is not disturbed by the mechanism. Even the #4 Curtis (looks like a Smith from the Woodward style Prince of Wales grip shape) has mechanism in the grip. The $18,000 Lefever is like my Parker with an undisturbed grip area. This mechanism is unneccesary because my #5 Parker can be adjusted for cast and offset without a mechanism in the grip. I think you may have pictures of my Parker from Patrick Lein. The pictured Smith was probably made at a time when Curtis was not superintendent at Hunter Arms because it doesn't seem to be a Curtis design.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,600 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,600 Likes: 13 |
I too have pictures of Eightbore's Curtis Parker try-gun but won't share them without Eightbore's permission.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,118 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,118 Likes: 198 |
Knock yourself out, Dean. I like seeing pictures of my guns on the internet. I love posting them also.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,688 Likes: 31
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,688 Likes: 31 |
Keep the information coming please .
WP Jones is credited with patenting the 'try-gun' but obviously Lancaster and I believe William Ford were the first with William Ford possibly being the very first , possibly with instructions from W.W. Greener. Let's get to the bottom of this if we can.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,118 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,118 Likes: 198 |
Dean, please post the pictures of the Curtis Parker try gun. They would be a great addition to this thread.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,415 Likes: 313
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,415 Likes: 313 |
ICC on Charles Rosson of Derby, and no mention of his try gun
Name Dobson & Rosson
Other Names Charles Rosson; Rosson & Son
Address1 4 Market Head
Address2 12 Market Place
City/Town Derby
County Derbyshire
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmakers
Other Address
Dates 1877-1950
A Francis Rosson was in business in Colchester Street, Whitechapel in 1811, he may have been the brother of a Charles Rosson (I) (b.1816) who was born in Whitechapel, London, and possibly the brother of Thomas Rosson (date of birth unknown). Francis, Charles I and Thomas may have moved to Birmingham at some time before about 1837 when a firm named Rosson & Son were recorded. A gun dated prior to 1840 and engraved Rosson & Son, Birmingham, has been seen. Thomas Rosson was recorded as a gun maker at Court, 22 Lancaster Street in 1838. Charles I was recorded as being in business as a gunmaker at 56 Hatchett Street, Birmingham, from 1840 to 1856. In 1857 Charles I moved to 19 Livery Street, Birmingham, and in 1859 he appears to have opened a shop at 46 Market Place Warwick. Several Birmingham gunmakers, Edwinson Green is an example, opened and supplied their own provincial retail gunshops rather than sell at trade prices. Also in 1861, a G Rosson was recorded as a stockmaker at 1 Whittall Street. It is possible that he was related, but the relationship is unknown. In the 1861 census, Charles I (aged 45) was recorded as a gunmaker employing 1 man and 1 boy. He was living at 19 Livery Street with his wife, Sibyl (aged 42), their son, Charles II (b.1842) an apprentice gunmaker, four daughters aged between 19 and 5, and another son, William Henry Belinda Rosson aged 1 year.
It has been widely reported that Charles (II) was apprenticed to John Francis & Co of 31 Whittall Street, and then worked for Hollis & Sheath. The reverse is probably correct, because Hollis & Sheath traded from 1849 to 1861, and John Francis & Co traded from 1860 to 1867. As stated above, Charles II was born in 1842, he would not have been apprenticed until he reached the age of 14 in 1856. It is possible that Charles II, having ceased working for John Francis & Co when they closed in 1867, then worked for his father in Birmingham or in Warwick if indeed, the Charles Rosson of Warwick was part of his father's business. The Warwick business closed in 1870. In 1873, Charles II opened his own business in Birmingham, the firm was was named Charles Rosson Jnr, and it was recorded at 20 St Mary's Row. Between 1874 and 1878 the firm moved to 8 St Mary's Row. It was not recorded after 1882 but may well have traded up to about 1900, a double barrelled hammer gun engraved C Rosson, 13 St Mary's Row, Birmingham, has been seen and dated to about 1900. Whoever Charles II had been working for, himself or his father or someone else, in about 1877 he went into partnership with R Dobson. This suggests that they knew each other quite well, they may have worked together, alternatively, Charles Rosson Jnr may have supplied R Dobson with guns. In 1868 R Dobson had bought the business of Frederick Gates at 4 Market Head, Derby (for further information about Charles II in Derby see Dobson & Rosson of Derby). In the 1881 census Charles I (aged 65) was recorded living at 22 Weaman Row with his wife, Sibyl and their son William Henry Rosson (aged 21) a gun finisher. This Weaman Row address has not been recorded elsewhere, so it seems that the Rosson family and this business did not occupy the premises for long. It would appear that the firm closed in 1882/3. A Charles Rosson died in Birmingham in 1892, this was probably Charles I. In 1868 R Dobson (formerly employed by Thompson & Son of Edinburgh) bought the firm of Frederick Gates at 4 Market Head, Derby. Although it has not been confirmed, he reportedly moved the firm to Rotten Row in 1870, but in about 1874 his address was recorded as 4 Market Head.
The name of the firm did not change until 1877 when Charles Rosson (Charles II) joined as a partner, and the firm of Dobson & Rosson came into being. The partnership between Dobson and Rosson suggests that they knew each other quite well, they may have worked together, alternatively, Charles Rosson (II) may have supplied R Dobson with guns. R Dobson died between 1878 and 1881. The 1881 census records Euphenia Dobson (aged 44), a partner in a gunshop, as born in Scotland in 1837. Clearly she had inherited her husband's share of the business. It also records a daughter Mary (b.1866) and three sons, James Dobson (b.1869), William O Dobson (b.1871) and Charles I (I) Dobson(b.1876). Only Charles was born in Derby, the others were born in Scotland, so it seems that Euphenia returned to Edinburgh to have her first four children. Charles Rosson (II) initially lived at 5 Duffield Road, Derby. The 1881 census records Charles II (aged 39) living at 108 Uttoxeter Road, Derby with his wife, Sarah (nee Armroyd b.1843), two daughters, Annie S (b.1875) and Florence E (b.1878), Percy (James) (b.1879) and Charles S Rosson (Charles III) (aged 10 months born 3 June 1880). On 30 September 1889 Charles Rosson of Market Head, Derby registered patent No. 15313 for an ejector mechanism. On 23 December 1890 he patented an adjustable fore-end attachment described in one report as a "fore-end loader" under patent No. 20930. What this was is not known. In 1892 he patented his famous "Eclipse" loading machine (No. 8813) with improvements (patent No. 3065) in 1894. In the 1891 census the family was recorded living at Mona Villa, Uttoxeter New Road, but whether this was the same place as 108 Uttoxeter Road or not is not known.
In the 1890s the firm had premises in Littleover (now a suburb of Derby) where they loaded cartridges. This may also have been a shooting ground. The firm dabbled in exporting guns, from about 1900 the firm had an agent in Denmark. In the years prior to 1905 Charles II appears to have decided that, as the elder son, Percy James Rosson (known as "Young Rosson" in the trade), would succeed him at the Derby business. Accordingly, in 1905 it appears that the name of the Derby firm changed to Rosson & Son, but there is a report that the firm's name only changed in 1912/13. If this is correct, the son could have been Percy, or Percy's son, of whom there is no record. At the same time, Charles II bought the business of H Wilson at 13 Rampant Horse Street, Norwich, Norfolk, and sent Charles III to run it. This business was formerly Wilson & Wilson, and prior to that E Wilson, and prior to that William Cartwright, and prior to that Isaac Walker. On 26 February 1913 P J and C S Rosson registered patent No. 4883 for heel plate and grip safety.
Other Info
The firm sold a model of shotgun named the "Universal" with a rib extension, and a double Express rifle named the "Automatic Cocking Gun". The firm loaded cartridges under their own name, they also loaded cartridges under the names "Grouse Ejector", "Eclipse" (deep shell red/brown in colour - post 1910 and 1918), "Roeditch" (named after an area of Derby), "Kuvert", "Monville" (post 1927 deep shell named after "Mona Villa" which was the name of the Rosson's residence in the 1890s) (early ones were light green and very rare, later blue ones are quite rare, and even later bright red ones appear to have been loaded with large shot sizes), and "Vipax" (economy load).
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