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Forums10
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
12ga x ? Trying to narrow down the search for the rifle caliber. Nothing in my copy of The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions. quite fit. Closest is the 11.15x36R Werndl carbine. Dimensions of the cast follow. Length of case = 1.41 Cal = .43 neck of case = .457 base of case just above the rim = .475 rim thickness is .073 rim diameter is .535 Any and all help greatly appreciated.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18 |
Mike, Are you looking for loading data or confirmation that it's a 11.15 x 36r Werndl?
Case dimensions and a cartridge description for that round are in Dixon's European Sporting Cartridges. I can scan the pages if you're interested.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
I'm trying to identify what it is exactly. The dimensions don't quite match up. The Werndl are
Length of case = 1.41
Cal = .43
neck of case = .473 16 thou larger
base of case just above the rim = .491 16 thou larger
rim thickness is .076 3 thou larger
rim diameter is .574 39 thou larger
it's just the closest that I've found. Case length matches perfectly.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
Mike, Dimensions of chamber casts are always larger than the cartridge, sometimes .010-.015" or more larger. If you can find some cerrosafe I suggest you make another chamber cast of it. Wax shrinks when cooling and it's soft enough that it's hard to take good measurements. On the other hand, wax is a quick way to determine the basic case shape. Mike
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
Cast was with sulfur not wax. Sulfur is much easier to remove from a chamber than cerrosafe. From what I've been told sulfur is the method lots of gunsmiths use.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8 |
Mike, Austrians made cape guns in 11mm Werndl carbine. I would get a 8x56R Mannlicher case or a 7.62x54R Russian case, shorten it and see how it fits. Regards, Jani
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
I would like to hear more about this sulfur concoction. What are the particulars? I thought sulfur to be quite corrosive but it may be temperature dependent.
Cheers,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
Last edited by Mike Harrell; 09/03/20 08:07 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
Gun is Belgian made so could be for anywhere. Has some silver inlays on the rib near the breach. For $265 I couldn't pass it up.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
Mike Harrel, The first chamber cast I ever made was also sulfur, but that was 55 years ago and I used common feed/seed store sulfur( reinforced with a piece of "tie wire", maybe that is why it was a different color. They are easy to remove, but it is because they shrink. Cerrosafe shrinks also, but returns to size after a time and more precise measurements can be taken then. If you wait too long to remove it, it will be difficult to remove, but can be melted out with a heat gun. If you never ID the cartridge, you can still load for it, and I agree that you couldn't turn it down. BTY, Jani may be onto something. Mike
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
Someone on another forum suggested 450 #1 Carbine. Photo looks good as does the length. But I don't have any other dimensions at the moment.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8 |
Mike, Is the rifled barrel left or right? If on left hand side, and the shotgun barrel (right hand) being of 12g, the gun was likely intended for the British trade - a 'real' Cape Gun and not a BF (Büchsflinte). If so, the .450 #1, which I'm not familiar with BTW, sounds good. Kind regards, Jani
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,113 Likes: 26
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,113 Likes: 26 |
That cast looks more like Bit o Honey to me
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