S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,532
Posts545,946
Members14,420
|
Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493 |
Looking a a few guns in the upcoming Holts Auction. Wall thickness of 15/20+; 17/17, 18/18, 23/17. And these guns are not estimated to be bargains but start about Ł2;000 and up. All in proof and legal to sell but buyer beware was never more needed. In proof is a poor guide as to true gun suitability for use. To me it is only the lowest hurdle that must be passed. Then wall thickness. Then on face. Then cracks or repaired stocks. The list only grows with the price.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402 |
It pays to be cautious at auction on the big dollar guns. The cheap stuff I will gamble on but anything over about 800$ I want mwt and if possible a condition report.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666 Likes: 45
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 666 Likes: 45 |
Some credible sources claim those MWTs may be fine for certain very limited applications...I suppose, but why buy those when there are so many fairly priced examples on the market now with good barrels?? Doesn't make sense to me unless you are getting a 10K gun for 2K and are planning on having it sleeved before importing to the US.
I had a proofed as 12 gauge Greener hammer gun that had been hogged out to .783 (not a typo) 10 gauge dimensions and it still had a MWT of 21 thou at the thinnest spot. No need to pretty much ever go below 20 unless buying some thoroughbred ultralight wand made by Purdey, H&H, Boss, etc. with original bores.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,688 Likes: 31
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,688 Likes: 31 |
Very good topic and advice Gentlemen. Just remember to be very careful with these English classics with thin walls . Have a look at a twenty thou feeler gauge and make your own mind up if you would be happy pushing through the brush chasing birds with such thin walls? Also your ammunition (apart from RST) is bit 'iffy' with your high pressures Be careful and enjoy the day .
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 272 Likes: 56
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 272 Likes: 56 |
People seem to pay over the odds at those auctions,especially given questionable wall thickness`.It is much more difficult to get an old set of barrels through reproof nowadays too.Do your maths,balance the facts and keep your money in your pocket and let the fools rush in is my advice
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493 |
I have an interest in different action types with different locking systems. I have side lever hammer guns, three different types of under lever latching systems in hammer guns. Most have thin barrels but none extremely thin or that expensive. Being a reloaded I can Taylor sane loads to keep pressure within limits I am comfortable shooting. Bursting is not my main concern but denying is a real risk so extra care must be taken. I shoot thin barrels but only if the thin area is well away from my little fingers. Have not dented any barrels yet but do know hunting with them that becomes a real risk.
I have considered buying several thin barreled project guns at auction but in each case a detailed inspection report has also found other problems which with the cost of sleeving and then importing made them prohibited from a cost viewpoint.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30 |
I passed on a really nice used but not abused 20 Ga CE Fox this spring that had below .020 walls on both barrels. oh so tempting but my head finally over ruled my heart. someone else obviously ended up with it but too thin for me.
Brian LTC, USA Ret. NRA Patron Member AHFGCA Life Member USPSA Life Member
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,180 Likes: 1161
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,180 Likes: 1161 |
I disagree a bit there, Brian. If a Fox had been "honed" to below .020" it was abused, IMO.
Good call on your part, SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
I have one gun, a 16ga Manufrance Ideal I bought from another member here which as a .020" barrel and it is still pitted to some extent. I shoot RST shells in it and cringe, but nothing bad has happened (yet)...Geo
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,180 Likes: 1161
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,180 Likes: 1161 |
The RSTs won't hurt it. Bumping it onto something hard when you're cleaning it, or putting it away, might.
Did you know it was still pitted at .020" when you bought it?
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493 |
Thin barrels are not the only reason for RST shells. I was shooting a Toledo Arms 20 ga. pump gun, with low pressure, roll crimped, 2 1/2" reloads. It has a full choked barrel and just crushes birds. The barrels are a surprising Krupp steel but 115 years is a long time on these early pump guns. Missed low five for a 25. You would think after a hundred years that gun would know how to hit a flat bird. I will have to try again.
I did check the barrel wall thickness and they were more than adequate for use but it was designed when factory shells were a lot lower pressure than today's factory shells. I do love RST shells but they are a bit pricey to me at $13.00 per box.
I can easily find 20 ga. empties for free at the club. Trimming them to 2 1/2" is very simple. Reolading on a MEC single stage loader and then roll crimping. Total per box cost is just over $4.00 a box. This is my standard low pressure load for all my classic gun needs. I also have a star crimped version when I am doing large volumes on my Spolar reloader but I just think a roll crimped shell ought to be used in a fine double. Just like paper, with Red Dot powder, are the perfect smell combinations on a cool Fall morning.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
The RSTs won't hurt it. Bumping it onto something hard when you're cleaning it, or putting it away, might.
Did you know it was still pitted at .020" when you bought it?
SRH Nah,it was not disclosed, nor was the MWT. But then, I didn't ask...Geo
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493 |
I looked at that one. Even if the pits are not in the .012 area I had to laugh and pass. That is a candidate for a sleeve job if any every was. Was thinking a 16 to 20 sleeve job but the 28” Barrels did not suit. I guess I could dream about a 32”/ 20 sleeve job with new top rib. That should set you back a couple thousand pounds. So let turn a $1,000 thin walled, basket case, into a $5,000 money pit. Better budget $6,500 just to be safe if it needs a bit of tidying up. Will you import it for me SKB? That should bring it up to $7,000 if it does not get lost in shipping. How good money chases bad buys sometimes.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402 |
Bargains abound for the brave?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,739 Likes: 493 |
Is .012, with pitting, brave? I’ll pass on that type of bravery. I did tell my wife a dress made her look a bit heavy once. Took months for My wounds to heal. Some ladies are a bit touchy about weight I learned.
About the H&H. Would you shoot it? I know “depending on where” might be your answer but I would not. Take a couple pieces of .006 steel shim stock and see how thin they look. Heck even if you add a third, .018 in total and they still look scary thin.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,997 Likes: 402 |
No....to thin for me. I would not shoot it or buy it.
That said, I am looking for just the right gun that needs to be re-barreled. I have a pile of tubes and some tube sets on the way and I am a gluten for punishment at times.
|
|
|
|
|